Why are there no 'MIDI' LFOs in Live ?!?

[Nick the Zombie]

In my experience, there are always inherent usage/performance/stability issues with non-native solutions...

So will Max For Live be native enough to make it workable dyathink?

I can only imagine that it will be a great solution to the request for MIDI-LFO. Like someone said in another thread, expect to start hearing "use Max for Live" as a very common answer to questions like this. I think it was a smart move on Ableton's part to open up customization like this so they can reduce the amount of feature requests to deal with per update. We'll see if it actually pans out that way!

[Kodama]

In my experience, there are always inherent usage/performance/stability issues with non-native solutions...

So will Max For Live be native enough to make it workable dyathink?

LFOS, yes, record Modulation to clips, maybe...

[djsynchro]

Another thing: Live's automation to max can be sample-accurate audio ramps if you wish.

[philipc]

If Max has direct access to manipulate the automation data rather than having to be converted to MIDI and looped back this will be a huge improvement. Probably not perfect yet as there's still no bezier curve drawing in arrangement view etc. but a huge step forward nevertheless.

[leonard]

Probably not perfect yet as there's still no bezier curve drawing in arrangement view etc. but a huge step forward nevertheless.

i think maybe if you could get access to the jscript in max then you could write some drawing routines with breakpoints which interpolate between breakpoints. not sure though because i don't really know what it will or wont be capable of..that and i'm certainly no max expert..

oh, edit...you said arrangement view. maybe i'm only talking about a single device...

[posssu]

This sounds all very exciting, and would improve Live dramatically. However, it
would be the one single most complex re-design of the software since version 1.0.
...
However, it might turn out that the changes would be so drastic that it would be
impossible to open older documents in that new version and things like that.
Things we simply cannot do anymore, too many users rely on us.*
...
*as a side note, this happens to a lot of companies: Mac OS 9 had to die because
there was no way to maintain and improve it anymore. Protools has this huge
legacy of the TDM hardware, that makes it hard to re-write the audio engine
without making customers who payed a gozillion for their old systems totally
mad...

+1 for going forward and improving things, even if makes people mad.

[Pasha]

This sounds all very exciting, and would improve Live dramatically. However, it
would be the one single most complex re-design of the software since version 1.0.
...
However, it might turn out that the changes would be so drastic that it would be
impossible to open older documents in that new version and things like that.
Things we simply cannot do anymore, too many users rely on us.*
...
*as a side note, this happens to a lot of companies: Mac OS 9 had to die because
there was no way to maintain and improve it anymore. Protools has this huge
legacy of the TDM hardware, that makes it hard to re-write the audio engine
without making customers who payed a gozillion for their old systems totally
mad...

+1 for going forward and improving things, even if makes people mad.

... Then you'll answer to all the infuriated post that will belong here..

[Joshua Lee]

Explanations like this are what I love about Ableton! This is in such stark contrast to Native Instruments who seem so tight-lipped about the problems regarding their software (Maschine, etc.).

Thanks for taking the time to write this up, Rob!

[luzil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJtiakAIA7M

[ethios4]

What about a 'compatibility mode' after the re-write? Older documents open in an older version of live...something like that?

[d-track]

thanks for the detailed info!
but the question is...
who want to open a live 8 project in live 9?
if one buy live 9 then he shouldnt have live 8 projects basically.
if one upgrade to 9 then still could use 8 and open l8 (and earlier) projects in 8.
then most of the users go L9 if this (and many other thing related to autometion) would be corrected in 9.
complete redesign is much appreciated thn a "dirty hack".

2 cents...

[OCDaveWilcox]

It's been 2 years. Please rewrite it already and get us these features!! People can open old projects in the old versions.

Please!!

[hoffman2k]

It's been 2 years. Please rewrite it already and get us these features!! People can open old projects in the old versions.

Please!!

Turns out a rewrite wasn't needed after all. This feature appeared in MFL and keeps getting improved. At one point it'll be smooth and flexible enough to be used in a native device. But we're not there yet. The Live API was designed for MIDI controllers, not for all the weird crap we can come up with. So once the API gets a significant update, we should see some of that magic in Live.

[fx23]

yes for sure hoffman, i could already test to "simulate" the autom to session or midi lfos, or even sidechain via osc/api by making
a synced 'virtual clip' that rec my input in a circular buffer and contols the param in absolute way.
the simplest solution i see would be api to auto select rec autom in arrangement and copy/paste to clip
modulation, then reset arrangement automation.
or to rec in buffer and
if Api let us then transfert arrays of points to a selected clip 'modulation', and that we can reset arrangement automation,
then it will be possible, however seems a bit weird complex with all induced latency/resolution problems:
transfering longs automations with high resolution will probably be problematic.
it has 2 XY coordinates for each points. what if huge nb of points/longs automations?
or there is something im not aware of that allow acces to 'write' clips modulations already or a nicer way ?
anyway MFL/api could be a "by waiting workaround" but autom to session have to be a native feature imo
people don't have to pay sooo much to get that working as it always should have been: straightforward

[hoffman2k]

If its there, its there. No need to get MFL for it.
All I'm suggesting is that this is probably a feature more likely to come in Live 9 with an improved API (which benefits Live users, Python hackers and MFL users), than this feature resulting in a Live rewrite.
Robert wrote this statement years ago, but he's also the guy that talked Ableton and Cycling into MFL. And he is currently on the same page as most MFL developers, waiting for an improved Live, API and MFL 2.0 to do things like native modulation and Surround mixing.

And we still can't access devices inside Racks yet, so until that is solved a native LFO probably won't appear as it would only make people complain.

Session Automation is a whole other question. I don't know how that could turn out though. Lots of issues to solve with looping, overdubbing and the added possibility that the thing you're recording is also being controlled by an LFO.
It'll be fun finding out how they handle this. We have been waiting for over half a decade. The suspense is killing me.