So how good are Max/Msp synths anyways?

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:48 pm

stringtapper wrote:Oh and if you want to know firsthand "how good Max's synths" are (whatever that means)...

By "how good are Max's synths", I mean "how good are Max's synths". As in "How good are they". Get it? See some synths are quite good. Excellent sound quality, big phat sound, capable of many different textures, not dull sounding. You know, that kind of thing. As opposed to boring, dull, lifeless as some soft synths are (in other words "not good"). Many people find operator to be "good" or sylenth1, or many reaktor synths. Lets not pretend that everything in the world of audio is 100% subjective - Though taste plays a part, there is generally some quality factor in tools that generate audio signals, wouldn't you say?

stringtapper wrote:Oh and if you want to know firsthand "how good Max's synths" are (whatever that means), download the Max 5 demo, go to Extras->ExamplesOverview, then click on the pane that says "X.FM~".

Then take the patch out of presentation mode...

Anyways, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:48 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:
stringtapper wrote:Oh and if you want to know firsthand "how good Max's synths" are (whatever that means)...
By "how good are Max's synths", I mean "how good are Max's synths". As in "How good are they". Get it?

The reason the question doesn't make sense is that Max doesn't "have synths."

Max is a visual programming environment. People make synths with it. So the question should be "How good are your synths that you made in Max."

Korhan · Post by **Korhan** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:02 pm

People who have worked with both Max and Pure Data usually say that Pure Data sounds better than Max, due to some internal calculation issues, etc. I have seen people move over to PD just for this reason. This was before Max 5 was released.

And yes, Max does have synths, as long as you construct your 'own' synth design using Max oscillators. Any inherent problems in those oscillators (if there are any) will be present in your synth design.

kleine · Post by **kleine** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:04 pm

If you mean "how does it sound" - there´s no answer to that. It depends on what someone does with it. It can sound like the EMS AKS:
http://logiciels.pierrecouprie.fr/spip.php?rubrique3
or like whatever someone makes with it.
Historically, max/msp users more explored new synth techniques such as FFT or granular stuff than modeling old synths...

Best,
Christian

[edit: my PPC OS9 G3 sounds very different from my Macbook Pro - FWIW]

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:21 pm

Korhan wrote:And yes, Max does have synths, as long as you construct your 'own' synth design using Max oscillators. Any inherent problems in those oscillators (if there are any) will be present in your synth design.

That doesn't mean it "has" synths. I'm sure you can understand the semantic nature of the problem if you think about it. Your second statement is indeed correct.

Korhan · Post by **Korhan** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:38 pm

Max does have 'synths' when you combine my correct second statement with the semantics in the question of the person who asked about Max synths.

If you look at this from a Max-user point of view, you're absoultely right, Max has no synths. Neither does it have any samplers or granulators or frequency shifters...

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:01 pm

I don't know Max or Reaktor, But I know with reaktor, you can for instance string together a bunch of premade Filter modlues, ASDRs, LFOs etc. and knock up a decent sounding synth. Right?

How much effort would this be in Max? Are these elements available natively as preconstructed modules? Or do you need to hunt down th best sounding devices externally? Either way would they include all the fancy pants analogue emulation that people go nuts over on synleth1 for instance? Or do you need to go right down to the nitty gritty and model all that yourself.

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:06 pm

Korhan wrote:If you look at this from a Max-user point of view...

And that's how I'm looking at it.

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:08 pm

im just hoping that the f1 help system is included in the M4L package, because max/msp has the best help system in the world, bar none.

Geezus · Post by **Geezus** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:30 pm

friend_kami wrote:im just hoping that the f1 help system is included in the M4L package, because max/msp has the best help system in the world, bar none.

judging from the videos it looks pretty much just like regular max 5, only locked up in ableton live. i'm sure the help system is there, that's the main thing that sets max apart from reaktor and pd

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:05 pm

Ok, well I guess I'm coming at from being a reaktor user. I'm not someone who builds synths with reaktor but I do like many of the factory (and user) synths. I aslo find that reaktor itself has a certain sound quality to it. I personally think it's quite good, though other VSTs can be better for certain things.

So I was assuming there were synths out there made with Max already, or factory synths/modules that came with it. That's mainly what I was wondering - Thus far, have synths that have been created with max been of a quality somewhat comparable to VSTs or something like reaktor?

It's not anything i'm going to judge it by and won't change whether I get it or not, just curiosity really about what the max synths out there have been like. I'm not sure if there's a user community for max patches or what, but I assumed that, like Reaktor, there may be a set of favorites by users or some creations that show off what's possible in terms of sound quality (not necessarily features).

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:39 pm

They are totally unsuitable for Trance, so if that's your game you'll have to switch to Cubase. Sorry.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:46 pm

djsynchro wrote:They are totally unsuitable for Trance, so if that's your game you'll have to switch to Cubase. Sorry.

I despise tarnce.

*sigh* Guess I'll go back to Logic....

xherv · Post by **xherv** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:33 pm

For some reason I want multiple arrange pages now, wouldn't that be a clusterf*ck . . .

If I can use a lifeline to get a dev answer, will it be possible do step sequenced (or some other scheme) clip envelopes in Max for Live?

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:51 pm

my first response was: "selling Reaktor!"..
but now that I think of it, Reaktor really beats Max when it comes to synthesis..
the Reaktor user library is so huge and of a very high standard..
compared to Reaktor the Max community tends to keep stuff private and I have yet to find an open source library such as Reaktor's..

Reaktor is a keeper for sure..