I am interested to know if anyone is playing downloaded tunes (from itunes for instance) in a club enviroment and how the quality stands up, I've heard that the bass isn't the same.
By the way I am recording the downloaded tracks to AIFF/WAV using Audio Hijack, is this the best solution.
Please help
Thanks
Quality of MP'3s when DJ'ing in clubs
the fact is your sound can't be the same after a mp3 compression. but i admit it's quite hard to detect when you use a variable bite rate for example or 192 KHz.
anyway, you don't need to record your downloads into wave or aiff cause what you're going to rec is the compressed file... you're using more room than necessary seen the quality will be exactly the same.
anyway, you don't need to record your downloads into wave or aiff cause what you're going to rec is the compressed file... you're using more room than necessary seen the quality will be exactly the same.
http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb ... 9;t=024701
some good points about the subject here...
FK - francois kevorkian
some good points about the subject here...
FK - francois kevorkian
Ableton 5.01
Laptop / Desktop
Pentium 4 2.5M / AMD Athlon 64 3400+
Win XP Pro SP2 / Win XP Pro SP2
Firewire 410 /Firewire 410
Laptop / Desktop
Pentium 4 2.5M / AMD Athlon 64 3400+
Win XP Pro SP2 / Win XP Pro SP2
Firewire 410 /Firewire 410
MP'3 Vs Vinyl
Thanks for the replies.
I checked out FK's comments which were interesting. My only concern is he doesn't even like spinning CD's. I know he likes to play loads of old school disco/soul etc which obviously sounds better on vinyl, but what about modern records, the beauty of itunes etc is that you can buy just the one or tow tunes you will spin from an album, it allows you to cross genres easily and cheaply. It would interesting to see if anyone thinks download quality is similar to CD. I have heard ipods playing tracks loud and they sound great (not club volume though). The trouble is are some people too attached to vinyl. I suppose the only thing to do is try it live!
ppflllpp.....
That the was the sound of my arse going.
I checked out FK's comments which were interesting. My only concern is he doesn't even like spinning CD's. I know he likes to play loads of old school disco/soul etc which obviously sounds better on vinyl, but what about modern records, the beauty of itunes etc is that you can buy just the one or tow tunes you will spin from an album, it allows you to cross genres easily and cheaply. It would interesting to see if anyone thinks download quality is similar to CD. I have heard ipods playing tracks loud and they sound great (not club volume though). The trouble is are some people too attached to vinyl. I suppose the only thing to do is try it live!
ppflllpp.....
That the was the sound of my arse going.
"It would interesting to see if anyone thinks download quality is similar to CD. I have heard ipods playing tracks loud and they sound great (not club volume though). The trouble is are some people too attached to vinyl. I suppose the only thing to do is try it live!"
in theory, the sound can't be the same after compression cause informations have been lost during the conversion. i think only a really well aware hear can listen to the differences between a cd and a well compressed mp3.
when you speak about the ipod playing tracks loud, i think you'll better check their audio dsp : they must correct the sound according to mp3 ! apple perfectly knows mp3 sounds a bit lighter than a cd or a vynil so they correct it through an eq.
so i will answer that vynil attachment as nothing to do with it, only a matter of verifying it : as you said, "try it live !".
in theory, the sound can't be the same after compression cause informations have been lost during the conversion. i think only a really well aware hear can listen to the differences between a cd and a well compressed mp3.
when you speak about the ipod playing tracks loud, i think you'll better check their audio dsp : they must correct the sound according to mp3 ! apple perfectly knows mp3 sounds a bit lighter than a cd or a vynil so they correct it through an eq.
so i will answer that vynil attachment as nothing to do with it, only a matter of verifying it : as you said, "try it live !".
francois uses a lot of digital technology. his post wasn't in favor of vinyl. it was in favor of high res audio.. which you can't get on vinyl anyway. so you can arguably make final scratch sound better than vinyl.
his point was more about FS users who play mp3s rather than uncompressed audio. since FS/traktor will play any sort of audio file, you aren't confined to mp3. unless you are only playing stuff you've downloaded.
as for the original question, ripping mp3 back to audio of course you are going to maintain the compression artifacts. once it's compressed, it's compressed. given that this is an ableton forum tho, if your only source material is an mp3 then you're going to have to live with the compression regardless. and Live won't play the mp3. duh.
however.... while everything said is accurate and from a high audio-moral ground, a) it's incredibly hard to tell the difference between a 256kbps mp3 and 16/44.1 audio file on a large system. the same can usually be said for 192kbps files, depending.. which brings me to b) keep in mind that MOST club sound systems suck ass. most are mono and even the ones that aren't don't do justice to the audio. in terms of playing out, the lowest common denominator isn't mp3s, it's generally club systems.
his point was more about FS users who play mp3s rather than uncompressed audio. since FS/traktor will play any sort of audio file, you aren't confined to mp3. unless you are only playing stuff you've downloaded.
as for the original question, ripping mp3 back to audio of course you are going to maintain the compression artifacts. once it's compressed, it's compressed. given that this is an ableton forum tho, if your only source material is an mp3 then you're going to have to live with the compression regardless. and Live won't play the mp3. duh.
however.... while everything said is accurate and from a high audio-moral ground, a) it's incredibly hard to tell the difference between a 256kbps mp3 and 16/44.1 audio file on a large system. the same can usually be said for 192kbps files, depending.. which brings me to b) keep in mind that MOST club sound systems suck ass. most are mono and even the ones that aren't don't do justice to the audio. in terms of playing out, the lowest common denominator isn't mp3s, it's generally club systems.
Last edited by drush on Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kent_sandvik
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:45 am
Best is to try. For example, I've downloaded/purchased the same material from beatport in 320kpbs MP3 and WAV format. Due to the excessive compression done today with dance music, the MP3 encoded file had even distortion, while the same song worked really well (borderline to clipping) as a WAV file. I stay away from MP3/AAC files myself for production use, but then again all I usually do is remixes.
The dynamics also suffer from the encoding stage, but with the current sound systems used at events it's hard to know much, as the systems themselves are not exactly HiFI quality (rather pushing out as much dB as possible).
--Kent
The dynamics also suffer from the encoding stage, but with the current sound systems used at events it's hard to know much, as the systems themselves are not exactly HiFI quality (rather pushing out as much dB as possible).
--Kent
I'm not attached to vinyl and I do play digital - MP3's and AAC files sound crap when amped up in a club. Bass is not representated and mid-highs sound compressed and in worse case sceenarios sound distorted.
Anything over 128kbps is fine for iPod and home stereos (and at a push you could play them in a bar environment); but if you're going to ram up the volume you might as well have all those extra 0's and 1's available.
16bit WAV or AIF or not at all :) ...call me a snob.
Dan
Anything over 128kbps is fine for iPod and home stereos (and at a push you could play them in a bar environment); but if you're going to ram up the volume you might as well have all those extra 0's and 1's available.
16bit WAV or AIF or not at all :) ...call me a snob.
Dan
I changed over from cd to 320mbps fixed rate mp3 encoded using the Lame encoder for djing two years ago and have never looked back. No one in a club has ever noticed any diffference and I can't detect one either on any system/headphone/studio monitor. I did a lot of encoder research before starting to rip over 400 cds, and the Lame is the best for high bit rates.
mp3 is good technology. However I'm sure clasical music snobs would rather cut off their right arms than listen to mp3s though so it's all in the ear of the beholder!
I cannot see there being any serious djs using solely cd or vinyl in 5 years time except for turntablism. The writing is on the wall.
nub
mp3 is good technology. However I'm sure clasical music snobs would rather cut off their right arms than listen to mp3s though so it's all in the ear of the beholder!
I cannot see there being any serious djs using solely cd or vinyl in 5 years time except for turntablism. The writing is on the wall.
nub
Thanks for the comments.
Nub, reffering back to my original question, do you download music from itunes or whatever and use that or do you only rip CD's. If i am ripping CD's I'm happy at the moment to just use the full WAV but if I download MP'3s there already encoded. Have u played any of these types of file without encoding them.
Thanks
Nub, reffering back to my original question, do you download music from itunes or whatever and use that or do you only rip CD's. If i am ripping CD's I'm happy at the moment to just use the full WAV but if I download MP'3s there already encoded. Have u played any of these types of file without encoding them.
Thanks
Yep, Lame is the most UN-lame mp3 codec i have heard, it's very good quality at any bitrate. I tend to use variable bitrate (on highest quality) for my own portable music listening, which is a very good "compromise" (i don't even think of it as such) between quality and filesize, because you can still get up to 320kbps when necessary, or right down to very low kbps if it's just a low volume section without many bits of data to encode.Nub wrote:Lame is the best for high bit rates.
I haven't DJed downloaded music except on one occassion when someone gave me a CD which had been burned from 192mbps mp3 and the quality wasn't acceptable to me. Basically I just don't trust other people's encoding/ripping. If it was all 320mbps I would consider it, but a lot of it is crap, encoded with crap.
Fidelity is very important to me. As a musician I would be upset to hear my music 'topped and tailed' as a bad mp3 in someone's dj set. I sweated blood over those details that are no longer there! You gotta show some respect after all.
However, there is a big difference between the artistic mutation of music in a dj set and music arbitrarily altered by the data medium. An important point.
As someone who writes and releases music I think it's important that the music that is heard 'out there' is as close as possible to the artists intention, on principle. Any artistic mutation applied over the top is simply that - live performance - gone in the moment.
I've spent a lot of time and money getting a good rip/burn setup going specifically in order to do two things:
1. I had 75% of my CD collection stolen in 2002 and I resolved to always have a backup from then on
2. I wanted to be able to assemble 'best of' cds at the touch of a button to take out DJing. I now have 45 cds containing the 'best of the best' from my cd collection and I only take them out with me. I used to lug a box of 100 original cds around which was quite a vulnerable position to be in.
In the past I have use a laptop to play wav files in a set, which was fine, obviously. I haven't used Windows Media type stuff because I just don't use that format. I don't know enough about it to trust it. Also kind of on principle, Media Player is so shit and I don't like Microsoft's invasive attitude to my life and pc use. Trying to stop xp sp2 using Media player for everything is a bitch!
I must say that I like the sound of Real Audio though. I have released DJ sets in that format on-line.
Uhm...have I answered your questions?
)
nub
Fidelity is very important to me. As a musician I would be upset to hear my music 'topped and tailed' as a bad mp3 in someone's dj set. I sweated blood over those details that are no longer there! You gotta show some respect after all.
However, there is a big difference between the artistic mutation of music in a dj set and music arbitrarily altered by the data medium. An important point.
As someone who writes and releases music I think it's important that the music that is heard 'out there' is as close as possible to the artists intention, on principle. Any artistic mutation applied over the top is simply that - live performance - gone in the moment.
I've spent a lot of time and money getting a good rip/burn setup going specifically in order to do two things:
1. I had 75% of my CD collection stolen in 2002 and I resolved to always have a backup from then on
2. I wanted to be able to assemble 'best of' cds at the touch of a button to take out DJing. I now have 45 cds containing the 'best of the best' from my cd collection and I only take them out with me. I used to lug a box of 100 original cds around which was quite a vulnerable position to be in.
In the past I have use a laptop to play wav files in a set, which was fine, obviously. I haven't used Windows Media type stuff because I just don't use that format. I don't know enough about it to trust it. Also kind of on principle, Media Player is so shit and I don't like Microsoft's invasive attitude to my life and pc use. Trying to stop xp sp2 using Media player for everything is a bitch!
I must say that I like the sound of Real Audio though. I have released DJ sets in that format on-line.
Uhm...have I answered your questions?
)nub