Price for MFL?????

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:35 am

Hertz SM wrote:
Poster wrote:huge and free patch archive = massive attraction
I really, really hope that'll happen.

(though some posts on this server say that MAX users seem to be sort of elite and therefore not willing to share...)

true.. but you're also dealing with another breed here: Live users..

jonny72 · Post by **jonny72** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:54 am

How about they sell it initially as a group buy?

They could offer Live for existing Max owners, Max for existing Live owners and another option for Live & Max owners. I'm sure they've got some figures in mind for the sales they would like, if only to cover development costs, and they could easily use this for the basis of the group buy pricing.

Obviously its unlikely they'd do this but it could work well. If they sell a lot more licenses than they were expecting, they'll be able to offer it at a lower price as a result - so they get their money and their customers get a good deal.

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:44 am

forge wrote:I'm beginning to think - if the max devices are not available for all Live users then there should maybe be a runtime version that's a lot cheaper (or even free like the Max one) that allows you to use devices created by others

it seems like there are a lot of people who just want to use the devices others have created, and it seems a bit unfair for them to have to buy the full version

Reaktor does this

I don't think it will be like this. Because M4L is adding a completely new functionality they're going to sell it as such. It's just another Live instrument a la Operator and Sampler, with an edit button. The edit button is what will make it more expensive too. I think the emphasis you heard David Z put on the edit button in his thoughts on M4L is good evidence for why there won't be a runtime version. The point really is to be able to create new toys, not just play with new toys.

deva · Post by **deva** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:55 pm

forge wrote:
Poster wrote:
forge wrote:I'm beginning to think - if the max devices are not available for all Live users then there should maybe be a runtime version that's a lot cheaper (or even free like the Max one) that allows you to use devices created by others

it seems like there are a lot of people who just want to use the devices others have created, and it seems a bit unfair for them to have to buy the full version

Reaktor does this
did that.. Reaktor Session has been discontinued for a while now..
maybe because of loss of Reaktor sales? because I think a good portion of users would just use ensembles without wanting to edit the guts..
that might have been a point of discussion for mfl as well..
yeah I guess - but I can't imagine how they could give people the whole version of max/msp/jitter for that much less than $699, but it seems a bit harsh to charge people that much if they only want to use other's ensembles

anyway...we'll see

They can charge considerably less (300$?) cause it can only be used in Live. Also, I would never ever buy Max. But Max for Live interests me. Selling it cheaper to Live users is not going to take away many sales for this reason.

I mostly expect to use existing MfL devices, but I do want to be able to hit the edit button and make changes too...

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:58 am

I wonder how Jitter's going to be used within Live.

How about making interactive performance systems where audience/contributors are co-creating/interacting with your music via video cameras?

.m

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:14 am

Hertz SM wrote:
Poster wrote:huge and free patch archive = massive attraction
I really, really hope that'll happen.

(though some posts on this server say that MAX users seem to be sort of elite and therefore not willing to share...)

I can't fathom that it won't happen.

max users may currently be 'kinda elite' but we are talking about a new field of 'max for live' users who will eventually be great programmers too but also very community driven.

julienb · Post by **julienb** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:19 am

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=105123 => poll about how you'll spend to buy Max for Live...

-art- · Post by **-art-** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:12 pm

It's pretty crazy.

Coming from the C74 side of things, what if you already own the full version of Max 5?

Or, what if you own'd a 9 month rego of Max? What makes more sense... upgrade to Max 5 full, or Ableton's M4L? Which is which?

Likewise, what does it mean to buy M4L? What does it mean for Max users? I think they would want to make it so neither C74 users or Ableton users benefited over the other.

Is it a possibility that you must own Max 5 first? Then, you buy the compatibility "plugin" that runs it all through Live. eg I can't imagine C74 users getting away without having to pay for Live.

To me, it makes sense that a Live user would have to buy Max, and a Max user would have to buy Live, and BOTH have to buy M4L (cheap). BOth companies win that way.

Pretty confusing either way. I own Live 6 at present, and my 9 month rego of Max recently expired. I was thinking to upgrade to the full version but this announcement has me waiting until we hear the full M4L details...

G. · Post by G. » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:20 pm

in my opinion, and regarding what i have read on the max msp list. M4L will not be very expensive for max5 registered users. they will have to buy the "bridge"...

my question is WHEN can we expect to try M4L and L8?

g

jeremydb · Post by **jeremydb** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:25 pm

[art] wrote:It's pretty crazy.

Coming from the C74 side of things, what if you already own the full version of Max 5?

Or, what if you own'd a 9 month rego of Max? What makes more sense... upgrade to Max 5 full, or Ableton's M4L? Which is which?

Likewise, what does it mean to buy M4L? What does it mean for Max users? I think they would want to make it so neither C74 users or Ableton users benefited over the other.

Is it a possibility that you must own Max 5 first? Then, you buy the compatibility "plugin" that runs it all through Live.

Pretty confusing. EIther way. I own Live 6 at present, and my 9 month rego of Max recently expired. I was thinking to upgrade to the full version but this announcement has me waiting until we hear the full M4L details...

I've tried to explain this clearly already in this thread, but one more time -- this is what we've officially stated:

A. To use M4L, you need to own Live 8 and the Max for Live addon to Live 8. Period.
a. If you already own MaxMSP 5 and Live 8, the Max for Live addon to Live 8 costs less.

There are naturally plenty of 'special cases' and considerations (academic, 9 month, etc.), and I know that everyone wants as much information as possible, but we're not announcing specific pricing information until the product is released. Thanks for your patience, and we'll keep you posted as new info becomes available.

Best
Jeremy

Dr Dub · Post by **Dr Dub** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:03 pm

As i am a poor student right now, i surely would love to see M4L as cheap as possible,
but i keep thinking about the runtime argument, and i am not sure if this would be a
good idea...

1. I think it would take away the Core of the Idea behind it, which is being able to hit
an edit button and go into your Tools/Toys.

2. Many many people will just use the runtime, use the work of others and don t give
something themselves for the Community. This would be o.k., but above this, the
people who give something would have to pay for all the work from Cycling, while
the others can just take and pay nothing.

In this logic, i would prefer to be able to programm my own things for free, but to pay
for the possibility to use the Patches from other users.

Perhaps it would be a good thing to let everybody pay for it, and therefor be able to
sell it for less than we think about right now.
I mean, for 400 or 600$, only people who know Max already will buy it, and it will
take a long time until there are nice Patches, but for 100$? Perhaps every Live user
is going to buy the Thing.... could be even more profit in the long run.

Bottom line: They should try to make Live + M4L a new Standard, not something only
for the mega geeks.

my 2 cents

gp23 · Post by **gp23** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:26 pm

Honestly, I just cannot see MFL being cheap. Based upon the price of Max and, let's be brutally honest, Ableton's generally high prices. People who think they're going to get Max functionality inside Live for the price of one of Ableton's instruments are quite likely to be disappointed.

What worries me here is that those who would like simple devices within Live such as a MIDI delay or LFO or whatever, will be told that MFL is the way to do this, and that will be that. Don't get me wrong, I think MFL is a great idea. But I would hate to see it touted as the solution to any minor feature request, or hold up further development of Live's own internal plugins.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm thinking 299 is possible, but wishful thinking.

I'm sure it won't be under 299. And likely not over 399.

I think if I was on the Price is right, I would go with 349. Unless I thought everyone was way over, then maybe I would say 299.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:33 pm

Dr Dub wrote:As i am a poor student right now, i surely would love to see M4L as cheap as possible,
..

as a poor student you can get the full version of Max/MSP/Jitter for $59 for 9 months then use $39 of that towards an upgrade to the full student price of $250

maybe MFL will do the same, but it might be worth grabbing the 9 month license anyway

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:30 pm

I think it would be good for us to know exactly what won't be in M4L that is in Max 5. Obviously standalone operation will not be a part of it by its very nature. Creation of VSTs and standalone apps will surely not be possible either. Those are some pretty big things which will surely bring the price of M4L down. If there are any other differences I haven't heard about them.