NEEDS TO BE IN LIVE 8: Comprehensive Groove Editing!!!

[urbanaut]

The new groove engine is very cool, but.....

What Live 8 needs in the piano roll editor is the ability to swing individual notes, or groups of notes, in the piano roll independently.

What I would like to see is a set of controls on the left side of the MIDI Clip where you can swing and/or offset the beginning of what ever note(s) is/are selected currently in the clip, and at different subdivisions (8th, 16th, etc...)

Let's say I want a heavy swing on the kick drum. I select the kick drum note on the piano keys to highlight all the notes in that row. First I select 16th notes from a drop down menu as the swing subdivision, because that's what I want to swing. Then I move to the swing knob which starts at 12 o'clock which is no swing. I turn the knob almost all the way to the right for a very heavy swing, seeing the notes shift smoothly in the clip as I turn the knob. Now the kick is heavily swung independent of every other note in the clip.

Next I want to offset the snare so that it triggers a little bit late, putting it deeper in the pocket. I go over to the controls on the left again and click on the offset knob, which is also at 12 o'clock, meaning completely quantized. I then turn the knob a little bit to the right to push the start of all the notes selected together over just a little bit. This is not swing, this is delaying the triggering of the notes. Different function, different knob.

Lastly, I want to swing the hi-hats, but less so than the kick drum. I select the hi-hat notes I want to swing, then select 16th note from the drop down menu and turn the swing knob about half way to the right.

At this point the kick is heavily swung, the snare is a little deep in the pocket, and the hi-hat has a lighter swing going on.

The reason I start the knobs at 12 o'clock is because sometimes I'm gonna want to rush notes and maybe even swing a kick of a hi-hat note in reverse, to make groove sit on top of the beat, like in a lot of straight, latin music. I made a little rendition of the box the way I see it in my mind.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34616814@N08/3212183960/

The variation knobs are an idea that the user can set a level of variation for the swing or offset so that they don't all move exactly the same distance. The higher the variation setting, the more they are moved different amounts, for a more human feel.

The global swing would take precedence over these individual sub-levels of swing, but I think they should change in relation to the global, not be completely over-ruled by it.

Let me know what you guys think of this idea. And if any of the product developers have any Q's please e-mail me.

Thank you for your time.

[urbanaut]

Seriously, nobody would like to see this one? It seems so vital to me.

Let me dive further into this. Let's say I'm working with many percussion sounds and I want them to sound together but a little loose, like they are all being played by different people.

At this point I can only play them live, then try to quantize a little bit if there are errors. After that, I would have to go in and click individual notes and move them around using the tried and true but tedious trial and error technique to get the feel right. This can take a while.

But, with the possibility of turning a knob to change the offset and/or swing, which is also reversible by simply turning the knob back I can massage the groove at a very subtle level fast and intuitively. These would not be drastic changes but small feel adjustments to make the groove more natural while not losing it's overall cohesion.

Please feel free to comment.

Thank you again.

[jlgrimes]

The new groove engine is very cool, but.....

What Live 8 needs in the piano roll editor is the ability to swing individual notes, or groups of notes, in the piano roll independently.

What I would like to see is a set of controls on the left side of the MIDI Clip where you can swing and/or offset the beginning of what ever note(s) is/are selected currently in the clip, and at different subdivisions (8th, 16th, etc...)

Let's say I want a heavy swing on the kick drum. I select the kick drum note on the piano keys to highlight all the notes in that row. First I select 16th notes from a drop down menu as the swing subdivision, because that's what I want to swing. Then I move to the swing knob which starts at 12 o'clock which is no swing. I turn the knob almost all the way to the right for a very heavy swing, seeing the notes shift smoothly in the clip as I turn the knob. Now the kick is heavily swung independent of every other note in the clip.

Next I want to offset the snare so that it triggers a little bit late, putting it deeper in the pocket. I go over to the controls on the left again and click on the offset knob, which is also at 12 o'clock, meaning completely quantized. I then turn the knob a little bit to the right to push the start of all the notes selected together over just a little bit. This is not swing, this is delaying the triggering of the notes. Different function, different knob.

Lastly, I want to swing the hi-hats, but less so than the kick drum. I select the hi-hat notes I want to swing, then select 16th note from the drop down menu and turn the swing knob about half way to the right.

At this point the kick is heavily swung, the snare is a little deep in the pocket, and the hi-hat has a lighter swing going on.

The reason I start the knobs at 12 o'clock is because sometimes I'm gonna want to rush notes and maybe even swing a kick of a hi-hat note in reverse, to make groove sit on top of the beat, like in a lot of straight, latin music. I made a little rendition of the box the way I see it in my mind.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34616814@N08/3212183960/

The variation knobs are an idea that the user can set a level of variation for the swing or offset so that they don't all move exactly the same distance. The higher the variation setting, the more they are moved different amounts, for a more human feel.

The global swing would take precedence over these individual sub-levels of swing, but I think they should change in relation to the global, not be completely over-ruled by it.

Let me know what you guys think of this idea. And if any of the product developers have any Q's please e-mail me.

Thank you for your time.

This sounds more like a level of deep midi editing. I hope something like Max would allow you to do this.

[urbanaut]

I was thinking that through as well. But I think it would be nice to have these kinds of features as a fundamental element in the user interface next to the envelope editing pane. I can even see expanding this idea to include velocity editing of all different kinds; To have a comprehensive pane devoted specifically to subtle groove/feel editing would be wonderful to me. I real time saver in many ways.