What Kind fo Innovations Would You Like To See In Hip-hop ?

[contakt321]

I have a difficult time believing that alot of people can't understand that the words hiphop can apply to a style of music and also a culture, there are many styles of music that also share their name with that of a culture. I believe that either you don't know the definition of the word culture or just don't know hiphop but (I assume nothing) if you do know the definition of what culture is then why are you denying the existence of a hiphop culture.

really it's kind of peculiar to do that in my opinion.

Is house a culture? Is fidget house? How about disco house? What about techno? What about minimal techno? What about minimal German techno?

What defines hip-hop culture to you?

Being constantly late?
Thinking you are talented for now reason other than you are you?
Recording substandard material and calling it a "mixtape"
Demanding money before you turn in music to your label?
Not touring or promoting your own records?
Waxing poetic about keeping it real?
Waxing poetic about the good old days you werent there for?

Lets get back on topic - what would make hip-hop interesting and be considered an innovation?

Effort, open-mindedness, and ingenuity.

There hasn't been much of that in the last decade.

[starving student]

contakt that's great that you've had success in music and worked with successful artist some of which I like myself, but this doesn't equate to anything, look I'm not actualy sure where you're coming from well i'm sure where your coming from but now how you got to where you are, it sounds like you are saying that because mf doom, atmosphere or whomever is not a part of hiphop culture that there is not such a thing as 'hiphop culture' i don't mean to be rude but i think you need to really slow down and listen to what you are actualy saying, or what it appears that you are saying.

I asked you before why is it that you think a culture and a genre of music cannot share the same name, hiphop isn't even the only culture with a genre of music by the same name there are many others.

someone else earlier posted about many people who make hiphop music but are not from or of the hiphop culture why that is so hard for you to believe I don't know, but the criteria for the definition of what culture is is a simple one and hiphop culture fit's that criteria if not then tell me how it does not. the rappers and beatmakers you listed (if indeed they don't consider themselves ) a part of hiphop culture is fine there's nothing wrong with that, they are not a part of a thousand other cultures I have no idea why that proves anything to you.
anyway i'm not always respectful when debating something with people but I will try to be the more and more we talk about this, your opinion intrigues me greatly.

[starving student]

Is house a culture? Is fidget house? How about disco house? What about techno? What about minimal techno? What about minimal German techno?

What defines hip-hop culture to you?

Being constantly late?
Thinking you are talented for now reason other than you are you?
Recording substandard material and calling it a "mixtape"
Demanding money before you turn in music to your label?
Not touring or promoting your own records?
Waxing poetic about keeping it real?
Waxing poetic about the good old days you werent there for?

to me the definition of hiphop culture has nothing to do with the things you listed up above, from being constantly late to waxing poetic about the good old days, your list is concise and it really doesn't sound like we are discussing culture at all, it sounds like we are discussing your disenchantment with working with some very less than punctual and less than down to earth music artist and the things you mentioned are things as music artist that I think everyone here can relate to but this has nothing to do with whether hiphop culture exist or not. I wish you could see this.

another thing that is kind of strange is that you're pointing out that disco or fidget house are not cultures, that's cool but why are you equating the fact that some other music genres don't have cultures by their names that hiphop does not, the fact that coca cola is not a culture has nothing to do with the fact that there is a very real gang culture in los angeles. don't you think it's funny to use people who are not a part of a certain culture to be evidence that said culture doesn't exist, for me this is not sound logic.

[Surreal]

heh.

Hip hop WAS very much a way of life. i think that, by documenting the fact, KRS was trying to keep that as a truth or at the very least outline the shift in thinking.

It is very hard to say the hip hop is a way of life now. it has been co opted by media and the world.

at the very least, be clear and say 'hip hop music' to neatly sidestep the problem.

[Angstrom]

I would like to see some actual hip-hopping

people hopping, on their hips.

[starving student]

heh.

Hip hop WAS very much a way of life. i think that, by documenting the fact, KRS was trying to keep that as a truth or at the very least outline the shift in thinking.

It is very hard to say the hip hop is a way of life now. it has been co opted by media and the world.

at the very least, be clear and say 'hip hop music' to neatly sidestep the problem.

i understand what you're saying surreal but the fact that the media has co opted something doesn't mean that a culture doesn't exist on the contrary it actualy is more so of an evidence that it is. besides all cultures are co-opted by the media and rest of the world. I really wonder what contakt thinks the definition of culture is?
also why do people think that krs-one is the definitive entity in the discussion, he did not start hiphop music or hiphop culture, I'd like to see someone to try explain to africa bambaata that there is no such thing as hiphop culture.

[starving student]

I would like to see some actual hip-hopping

people hopping, on their hips.

me too, on second thought you know breakers have been doing that for years

[leisuremuffin]

ITT:

why i don't talk about hip hop here anymore.






.lm.

[contakt321]

@ Starving:

I am absolutely enjoying this discussion (I always do) and you are totally respectful, I always enjoy your opinions, I see you posting in a ton of threads that interest me.

My points earlier re: artists were specifically in relation to being "uninformed" I think I am over informed and I would agree with the disenchantment.

My OFF TOPIC response to that is, after meeting my heroes and artists that I have been a fan of (in a professional setting, not a fanboy setting) and unfortunately was underwhelmed by most. My general take on most encounters is that I found that most artists who preach positivity and hip-hop culture are usually the biggest jerks, and the most obsessed about getting paid, even if its small change. I am talking the Talibs, the Mos Defs, etc of the world. In contrast, most of the thug rappers I have worked with are generally the coolest, most laid back guys (King T, Mobb Deep, Tragedy, etc). Strange right?

I think a huge factor in the implosion and lack of progress if indie hip-hop is the lack of effort and the obsession with getting paid. Many indie artists stress money more than the majors. Indie artists with no records to their name stress getting $500 for a verse or a beat, instead of getting exposure and building relationships. Meanwhile, meet with some major artists (Busta, Alchemist, etc) and make a connection and they feel your stuff, they will do stuff for free. Ironic isn't it?

My ON TOPIC response:
This thread is about innovation in hip-hop. I argue that there is very little. On the majors, I feel like Timbaland is by far one of the most talented producers out, constantly evolving. Strangely, Swizz Beatz has captivated me as well, his evolution is impressive and he has amazing writing. Just Blaze is amazing and a great guy who probably reads this board - he knows his stuff.

On the Indie side of straight hip-hop (as in not FlyLo), El-P, Dilla RIP, Alchemist, Sebb, RJD2 (last album is slept on) etc hold the torch high.

I think specifically indie hip-hop is so incredibly boring and dated (as a generalization) and that people bring hip-hop culture into the mix as an excuse for using the same formula used in the 90's 10-20 years later. Maybe we all need to consider that "hip-hop culture" might not value innovation. Maybe "hip-hop culture" values sticking to the mold created by Primo, Pete Rock, Q-Tip, Dilla, Havoc, etc because if you look at the 9th Wonders, Kev Brown's, Illmind, etc - they are just rehashing what those producers did in the 90's (no offense to them, and people definitely like that kind of music).

[Surreal]

well, off topic:

it took 2 pages and a pretty heavy handed generalization for hip hop culture to be brought up. perhaps a bit reactionary, but some people feel a bit stongly about a culture they grew up with. heh. i didn't even grow up IN hip hop culture and i feel strongly about the culture.

on topic,

i want more more hip hop artists to approach craft like musicians.
(whatever that means)

[Geezus]

Random shout out for Dave Tipper's "Tip Hop" album for being fucking awesome and ORIGINAL. Maybe not hip hop in the general sense but who fucking cares, its rad and shows the innovation that is lacking in the greater hip hop community.

[freqn]

more moog and cowbell please

[starving student]

more moog and cowbell please

I second the cowbell, ever since thats been gone it's been down hill

[starving student]

@ Starving:

I am absolutely enjoying this discussion (I always do) and you are totally respectful, I always enjoy your opinions, I see you posting in a ton of threads that interest me.

My points earlier re: artists were specifically in relation to being "uninformed" I think I am over informed and I would agree with the disenchantment.

My OFF TOPIC response to that is, after meeting my heroes and artists that I have been a fan of (in a professional setting, not a fanboy setting) and unfortunately was underwhelmed by most. My general take on most encounters is that I found that most artists who preach positivity and hip-hop culture are usually the biggest jerks, and the most obsessed about getting paid, even if its small change. I am talking the Talibs, the Mos Defs, etc of the world. In contrast, most of the thug rappers I have worked with are generally the coolest, most laid back guys (King T, Mobb Deep, Tragedy, etc). Strange right?

I think a huge factor in the implosion and lack of progress if indie hip-hop is the lack of effort and the obsession with getting paid. Many indie artists stress money more than the majors. Indie artists with no records to their name stress getting $500 for a verse or a beat, instead of getting exposure and building relationships. Meanwhile, meet with some major artists (Busta, Alchemist, etc) and make a connection and they feel your stuff, they will do stuff for free. Ironic isn't it?

My ON TOPIC response:
This thread is about innovation in hip-hop. I argue that there is very little. On the majors, I feel like Timbaland is by far one of the most talented producers out, constantly evolving. Strangely, Swizz Beatz has captivated me as well, his evolution is impressive and he has amazing writing. Just Blaze is amazing and a great guy who probably reads this board - he knows his stuff.

On the Indie side of straight hip-hop (as in not FlyLo), El-P, Dilla RIP, Alchemist, Sebb, RJD2 (last album is slept on) etc hold the torch high.

I think specifically indie hip-hop is so incredibly boring and dated (as a generalization) and that people bring hip-hop culture into the mix as an excuse for using the same formula used in the 90's 10-20 years later. Maybe we all need to consider that "hip-hop culture" might not value innovation. Maybe "hip-hop culture" values sticking to the mold created by Primo, Pete Rock, Q-Tip, Dilla, Havoc, etc because if you look at the 9th Wonders, Kev Brown's, Illmind, etc - they are just rehashing what those producers did in the 90's (no offense to them, and people definitely like that kind of music).

I hear you and now that we're back on topic again I'd say I'd like to see more hiphop made with turntables only, but dense production, I'm sick of djs on synths put'em back where they belong and the whole genre will benefit from it

[dhilsabeck]

i hope you're kidding. that's exactly the type of jibberish i expected to get from the hiphop community. nothing against you personally, but what if i told you that techno was a way of life!!! that just doesn't make any sense and it just isn't so. Who do you think benefits most from the hip hop way of life? how about corporate america?! i say you're no longer hip hop when you make an album that sells a million copies. you are then mainstream!

Haha. That stupid stuff always cracks me up.

Sorry folks, hip-hop is a genre. Is techno how you live? Is pop? Is jazz? This way of thinking is an excuse for people to run around and sound foolish using slang that doesn't sound natural to them and live in some sort of fantasy land.

Hip-hop is a genre.
Rap is a genre. Rap is also something you do.
Hip-hop and Rap are often used as interchangable words for the same genre.
Some fans say they listen to hip-hop to seem elitist over people who use the word rap.

Who cares?

you and mcq 1234 win for most un-informed, I know you are proud of it so carry on.

I'm with you Tone. Hip hop is a culture, not just a genre.
Kind of like reggae. I remember studying something called the "reggae aesthetic" which encompasses all sorts of elements of the culture besides the music, like hip hop.