2 questions about Plogue Bidule as a plugin in Live

decrepitude · Post by **decrepitude** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:15 pm

1. Are there any sort of live performance options/workflows you can achieve with Plogue Bidule?

2. Would it be possible to use Plogue Bidule as a plugin in Live to record and playback controller data in lieu of no real-time recording of controller data into midi clips?

Before I go investigate myself, I was wondering if anyone here could tell me.

Gurulogic · Post by **Gurulogic** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:14 pm

1-Absolutely! Too much too list really and you can get a bit lost in the learning curve/options but just a couple of things to mention are:

-Realtime switching of (supported)vst plugin presets, parameters and audio routing.
-Countless midi hacks and manipulations that can all be controlled remotely.
You can set up an elaborate midi processing/routing configuration and then change on the fly to yet another processing/routing configuration.
-Excellent support and handling of thid party audio and midi plugins (ie: pizmidi etc.)

2-I haven't done exactly this yet but I'm sure that between bidules own midi recorders/players and third party options this should be more than possible.
I do capture midi controller CC values into the pizmidi midiCCreset plugin so that I can have instant recall + midi feedback from/to ALL Abletons + vst/vsti mix parameters.

3-Bidule VST is well worth the 75 bucks Canadian!

I basicly only use Live to do basic routing and as a pretty GUI to host Bidule in.I have everything set up so that I can use only one Live set for up to 127 songs/patterns.Mind you,I do everything in realtime with hardware and vsti's/vst's and I don't use audio clips.
If you wan't any more tips or suggestions feel free to give me a shout..

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:30 pm

have a look at usine (http://www.sensomusic.com) as an alternative. whilst it's certainly very useful in te end i found bidule too much like hard work - i can do the same stuff in usine in half the time generally!! horses for courses though, you might prefer bidule, but given theres a free version of usine it's at least worth a look.

decrepitude · Post by **decrepitude** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:47 pm

When I was on windows, I was very curious about the possibilities of Usine.

But alas, I am now a happy mac user.

Wow Guru, knowing we both share some of the same ideals (or might I say gripes about Ableton Live) it's very encouraging to hear you're an advocate of Plogue!

Yes, it would be most awesome to benefit from your tutelage! But, before I ask a bunch of obvious questions, perhaps you could point me to some articles or discussions which would help me until such time I need to ask specifics. You rock dude!

Gurulogic wrote: You can set up an elaborate midi processing/routing configuration and then change on the fly to yet another processing/routing configuration.

This sounds awesome! I'm curious - Do you have to stop the music before changing another configuration?

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:44 am

decrepitude wrote:But alas, I am now a happy mac user.

fair enough...

Gurulogic · Post by **Gurulogic** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:09 am

decrepitude wrote: Yes, it would be most awesome to benefit from your tutelage! But, before I ask a bunch of obvious questions, perhaps you could point me to some articles or discussions which would help me until such time I need to ask specifics. You rock dude!

Gurulogic wrote: You can set up an elaborate midi processing/routing configuration and then change on the fly to yet another processing/routing configuration.
This sounds awesome! I'm curious - Do you have to stop the music before changing another configuration?

For any midi related stuff, unless you experience any issues that haven't plagued me you should be absolutely fine switching midi configurations around on the fly.Bidule mostly handles device (plugin) presets as parameters which it takes over (not the best explanation)
Say for example you are using an arpeggiator plugin with 10 parameters, you would typically enclose the plugin in a group and export the plugins parameters to the group GUI.Now any changes you make to the plugin are reflected on the group GUI and can be captured as group presets which can be recalled by midi CC.

The same applies to audio processing but myself (on windows) I am having a bit of an issue where I get a small pop in the realtime audio when recalling too many vst (group)parameters at once.

As far as where to go to learn more, the plogue forums is probably the best bet for in depth stuff but I can't say I've seen any sign of anyone who is using the same particular approach I am, which is focused around integrating my entire hardware studio/software setup into a giant modular groovebox of sorts that all ties together seamlessly for live performance oriented use.

I can definately help out with some tips and tricks but depending on how you want to tie your performance together a lot of it will probably be up to your personal taste.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:59 am

decrepitude wrote:2. Would it be possible to use Plogue Bidule as a plugin in Live to record and playback controller data in lieu of no real-time recording of controller data into midi clips?

I am not expert at Plogue Bidule but I have it and have used it to map various midi things to various other midi things.

I am thinking that you could record midi cc's directly into Live, by using Plogue to translate the CCs into notes and running them into a Live track.

You would essentially split your remote input to run thru Plogue and also set up to be the remote controller in LIve.

It seems like once you had captured the "control as notes" clip, you could then "reconstitute" the CCs by mapping them back the other way, running them back thru Plogue.

I think this might work.

Gurulogic · Post by **Gurulogic** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:33 am

I just tested recording continuous controller messages in bidules midi recorder and although the first attempt recorded and played back just fine the following attempts didn't seem to work so well or I was doing something wrong.

Also it's going to take a bit of figuring on the best way to trigger the recorders and players in sync and on cue.The midi files can be selected via group presets which can be selected via midi.My first unadventurous instinct would be to search the web for a more robust vst midi file recorder /player to use in bidule...

I am also kind of liking mikemc's idea...if the CC value could be converted to velocity values it would probably work.Then you could keep all your controller clips in Live.Hmmm..

{EDIT:Bloody hell, I just tried this.It works perfectly..it goes like this:
Midi port from controller into Bidule
Insert Multi Message Remapper
Remap CC's to Notes
Midi out to Live track
Record notes in clip
Play clipback to Bidule
Insert Multi Message Remapper
Remap Notes to CC's
Play back to device

Somewhere along the lines the CC's became a bit "gritty" so some kind of smoothing filter might be a good idea.}

Probably best to first download the standalone demo and make sure it will do what you want.

decrepitude · Post by **decrepitude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:37 pm

Man! You guys are on it! Thanks so much. This could turn out to be quite interesting.

Looks like a Plogue Bidule weekend for me......

decrepitude · Post by **decrepitude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:48 pm

Guru,

If you can get this working consistently and smoothly, you should be sainted!

And I will be your humble servant!!

Gurulogic · Post by **Gurulogic** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:08 pm

Haha, it's funny. Due to this thread I am having a good hard look at Usine as a possibly better way to manage my FX chains.A lot of goodies in there,some better than Bidule, some not. Not that I would completely drop Bidule or anything...but in combination,wow!
...I think the solution of transforming the midi and recording note/automation clips in Live and then transforming again on playback is the best looking option for now. You could do this with the stand alone Bidule via virtual midi ports or however the macOS handles this.you would need to do the same in the plugin version anyways.
For all I know there may be some Live compatable midi plugins that would allow the whole thing to happen within Live.

Here is a good place to check:
http://www.midiplugins.com/

decrepitude · Post by **decrepitude** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:23 pm

Gurulogic wrote:
Here is a good place to check:
http://www.midiplugins.com/

Thanks Guru, unfortunately there is very little for OS X.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:10 pm

Gurulogic wrote:I am also kind of liking mikemc's idea...if the CC value could be converted to velocity values it would probably work.Then you could keep all your controller clips in Live.Hmmm..

{EDIT:Bloody hell, I just tried this.It works perfectly..it goes like this:
Midi port from controller into Bidule
Insert Multi Message Remapper
Remap CC's to Notes
Midi out to Live track
Record notes in clip
Play clipback to Bidule
Insert Multi Message Remapper
Remap Notes to CC's
Play back to device

Somewhere along the lines the CC's became a bit "gritty" so some kind of smoothing filter might be a good idea.}

way cool, thanks for trying that

I thought it would work.

You might be able to use Midi compressor in-between the note to cc remap (decode) to apply some smoothing on the way back out.

2 questions about Plogue Bidule as a plugin in Live

2 questions about Plogue Bidule as a plugin in Live

Re: 2 questions about Plogue Bidule as a plugin in Live