[amo] 8.0b4 Time no longer shown at bottom of clip view

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:49 pm

Please tell me this is not a new feature?

Bump.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:49 pm

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:24 pm

Hi,

there are various reasons for that. Let me try to express the reserve we have: in Live 7, you would see the clip's original sample time, below the waveform. Then you would warp the beat timeline without affecting the waveform.

In Live 8, we are stretching the waveform. Then, the real time ruler, if displayed at the bottom of the waveform, would have to be stretched as well, and it's bot quite sure how usefull/pretty it would be.

What do you think?

Regards,
Amaury

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:48 pm

Personally it's something I use ALL the time, especially when DJing. Makes it easy to see how long a track is, how much time I have left before the track ends, etc. Or I might know that at 3:40 into a track, there's an annoying 8 bars I want to skip over, things like that. Hmm, or if I know I only have ten minutes left before the next DJ comes on, it's nice to see exactly how long a song is so i can try and end my set with the end of a songs. Lots of reasons really.a

Perhaps it's only calculated and displayed once you click on the Save button?

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:08 pm

Tarekith wrote:Personally it's something I use ALL the time, especially when DJing. Makes it easy to see how long a track is, how much time I have left before the track ends, etc. Or I might know that at 3:40 into a track, there's an annoying 8 bars I want to skip over, things like that. Hmm, or if I know I only have ten minutes left before the next DJ comes on, it's nice to see exactly how long a song is so i can try and end my set with the end of a songs. Lots of reasons really.a

Perhaps it's only calculated and displayed once you click on the Save button?

The thing is that you do not see the time the song will play. You see the time the song will play if it were played at its original tempo. I can imagine there are some scenario where it would still be useful, but in many cases, you'd see a warped timeline where 1 mn could take a minute and a half to reach, then 2 minutes would take 30 seconds.. I can't tell if time will allow anything. I keep it on the agenda though.

Regards,
Amaury

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:01 pm

Hmmm, between this and the smaller zoom area in clip view, the new warping method is killing me here. The most useful things in Live are being removed.

Even if the original file time (unwarped) was displayed, that would still be helpful.

kenporter · Post by **kenporter** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:28 pm

I would think that displaying time would be fairly simple. If the clip is not warped display the real-time of the clip, and if warp is turned on display the time based on the length of the clip and tempo of the session. That would make sense to me and would actually be better than Live 7's time display.

Ken

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:32 pm

kenporter wrote:I would think that displaying time would be fairly simple. If the clip is not warped display the real-time of the clip, and if warp is turned on display the time based on the length of the clip and tempo of the session. That would make sense to me and would actually be better than Live 7's time display.

Ken

For unwarped clips we still show the time, because there is no question about it. For warped clips, think that if you want to display the real song time, you could have some tempo automation in the arranger, or you could edit the tempo field manually, in which cased your timeline would fly in the best case, and flicker in the worst, if the automation goes too fast.

Really, the only option is to show the clip original real time, which then would be as stretched as the waveform is stretched.

Regards,
Amaury

kenporter · Post by **kenporter** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:36 pm

How is it done in the arrange view? I don't have it in front of me to check, but does the arrange view not change the timeline when adjusting the tempo using automation?

Thanks,
Ken

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:40 pm

kenporter wrote:How is it done in the arrange view? I don't have it in front of me to check, but does the arrange view not change the timeline when adjusting the tempo using automation?

Thanks,
Ken

Yes it does, but the tempo automation and the timeline always match in the same view. For a Session clip, when launched, you never know what will be coming. The timeline would have to update as the arrangement unfolds.
Or best, when looking at a clip, without playing it, you'd see some time information that would correspond to "somewhere" in the arranger, but no useful information..

We could of course improve things either way, but I'm very unsure we get around it, it's not that simple.

Regards,
Amaury

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:48 pm

Would be cool to see an option for elapsed time since the clip started in the session view, in the same place the pie chart style counter is.

kenporter · Post by **kenporter** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:49 pm

Yes, you're absolutely right. Since you can launch clips at any time, it would have to adjust the time display in real-time based on what position the track is at and what tempo automation is set in the arrange view.

Good point!

Ken

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:51 pm

Tarekith wrote:Would be cool to see an option for elapsed time since the clip started in the session view, in the same place the pie chart style counter is.

Are you aware that you've got a count down there, when the clip is not looped? Just checking, sorry if I ask the obvious.

Regards,
Amaury

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:08 pm

Yes, but when looping is on then you only get the number of times it's looped. Anyway, sorry to raise such a thorny issue

jonny72 · Post by **jonny72** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:28 pm

Amaury wrote:Hi,

there are various reasons for that. Let me try to express the reserve we have: in Live 7, you would see the clip's original sample time, below the waveform. Then you would warp the beat timeline without affecting the waveform.

In Live 8, we are stretching the waveform. Then, the real time ruler, if displayed at the bottom of the waveform, would have to be stretched as well, and it's bot quite sure how usefull/pretty it would be.

What do you think?

Regards,
Amaury

But surely that argument was equally valid with Live 7? If you play a clip back at a different bpm in Live 7 the time line below the wave form is pretty much meaningless as it is totally inaccurate.

This thread has got me thinking about clip time length though. In Live 7 that time line is the only way of knowing how long a clip is. When a clip is playing the channel strip tells you how long is left. Other than that there are no time displays anywhere. Or am I being thick?

I can see an argument for the time line being kept and left alone, in effect showing the time markers as they would be on the clip unwarped and played back at the original bpm. It would at least give you some indication of time markers.

I think there is an argument for some timing information to be added to the clip or sample boxes as well. The time length of the warped clip at original bpm along with time length at the current playback bpm.

Does that make sense?

Can't believe I've never noticed the lack of clip times before.