So how good are Max/Msp synths anyways?

[Machinate]

What the OP means... is does the max oscillitors have a good initial sound?
Like what does it sounds like compared to an initial osc from a Virus or Nord Lead etc.

There are basic oscillators that provide mathematical functions like sine, ramp etc. They do not sound good or bad, they just sound how the math sounds. But there are ways to achieve much more interesting derivations of e.g. a square sound that is more similar to a square from an analog synth. It is just more work to build and takes more CPU. MAX is in this regard really more a programing language and less a modular synthesizer. You can do great sounding things, but you need to know what 'great sounding' might mean technically. In Reaktor this job has been done for you by NI.

Finally some place where I disagree with mr. Robert Henke himself!

Saw~ , rect~ and tri~ are all anti-aliased versions, sounding better than a lot of commercially available softsynths!!! Not mathematically perfect, but resistant to aliasing and sweet-sounding!

[heavensdaw]

MAX is in this regard really more a programing language and less a modular synthesizer. You can do great sounding things, but you need to know what 'great sounding' might mean technically. In Reaktor this job has been done for you by NI.

Robert

So.. If you have no MAX or any other programming experience, what value will this partnership bring you?

Gerhard says in the video that you don't need to be a MAX programer to benefit. But now I'm wondering, how?

Hd

[heavensdaw]

MAX is in this regard really more a programing language and less a modular synthesizer. You can do great sounding things, but you need to know what 'great sounding' might mean technically. In Reaktor this job has been done for you by NI.

Robert

So.. If you have no MAX or any other programming experience, what value will this partnership bring you?

Gerhard says in the video that you don't need to be a MAX programer to benefit. But now I'm wondering, how?

Hd

People will share their Max creations - a bit like Reaktors ensembles

Ok I can see that.. Then what about 2 different types of license?

A 'lite version', where you get to be able to use '3rd party' ensembles but not have the 'creative' aspect or at least a stripped down creative aspect ..
And the 'full blown' MFL. version
The 'lite version' would be upgradalbe..

Dunno, just a lazy Saturday afternoon thought..

Hd

[Geezus]

MAX is in this regard really more a programing language and less a modular synthesizer. You can do great sounding things, but you need to know what 'great sounding' might mean technically. In Reaktor this job has been done for you by NI.

Robert

So.. If you have no MAX or any other programming experience, what value will this partnership bring you?

Gerhard says in the video that you don't need to be a MAX programer to benefit. But now I'm wondering, how?

Hd

People will share their Max creations - a bit like Reaktors ensembles

Also, its a different approach to programming that is much more accessible to artists and the like. Seriously, just download the max 5 demo and start going through the tutorials. Its fun

[PolyphonicPressureGroup]

A 'lite version', where you get to be able to use '3rd party' ensembles but not have the 'creative' aspect

Looking at "Reaktor Session" which is exactly what you propose there might be a chance for it at a later time. Just a guess.

[Poster]

my first response was: "selling Reaktor!"..
but now that I think of it, Reaktor really beats Max when it comes to synthesis..
the Reaktor user library is so huge and of a very high standard..
compared to Reaktor the Max community tends to keep stuff private and I have yet to find an open source library such as Reaktor's..

Reaktor is a keeper for sure..

See, while I definitely get where you're coming from, I disagree.You're flipping things around, since you say:

Reaktor really beats Max when it comes to synthesis

but really you're not talking about synthesis - you're talking about the readymades - the amount of free things online. For the most part the synthesis objects in MSP are more or less EXACTLY like the ones in Reaktor - it's just a lot easier to patch in MaxMPS (if you ask me).

erm.. yes thats what I meant?
reaktor beats max when it comes to synthesis because of the huge library and readymades.. not because of technical abilities..
so the answer to the OP was; if you want to use max for quality synthesis, you have to build it all yourself because there's hardly anything available exept for maybe some FM stuff..

The downfall of the Reaktor user lib is the EXTREMELY bad navigation in there, and the ratings system which any tech should have dismissed immediately.

but at least there is a huge and quality user library..
imho: max users prefer to keep things private..
not that they dont want to help out with questions and such, but sharing good stuff you could disassemble and reuse for your own work? not really happening no?..
at least not very centralized..

[imho] I've been reading different fora for the last couple of days and from what I've gathered the general consensus is "hell yes.. feck.. I'm ditching reaktor, viva max!".. guilty myself as well..hehe..
but lets not forget max ain't no easy playground you just walk into.. if you have zero expierence in modular programming enviroments you will be very very happy with readymades to learn from..
and I might be wrong but max doesnt come with a vast synthesis collection nor can you find a lot on the web..
even the MFL announcement focusses on MIDI /audio processining first..

* Comes with a selection of MAX devices that are ready to use out of the box for audio and MIDI processing, algorithmic composition, real-time performance and hardware control

thats where max is known for right? processing and sampling/looping etc.. not synthesis..

anyway.. not saying one is better or so.. they're both great in their own right..

[Poster]

compared to Reaktor the Max community tends to keep stuff private.

Very much correct, but from what I've understood from the "SHARE" in order to get your hands to M4L patch database you will also release your own patches, which, I'm sure, will have an avalanche type of effect to audio manipulation patches made with M4L. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you do).

the MFL patches database should get interesting and large I guess..
but probably because of Live users, not necessarily by Max users because that has not happened in the past either.. but who know?

[Korhan]

One reason Max users keep their creations to themselves is that what Max users create instruments for themselves, for their own requirements, styles, etc. In other words, they are personal instruments that will be useless for many others. On the other hand, the tools, processes in those personal instruments can be taken as modules to be used in other setups.

[stratusseeker]

Reaktor's user library is cool and impressive. My opinion is that Max can't compete on this level....YET.

Maybe this new partnership will help bring it up to speed with just as good a library as Reaktor and easier to use?

That's my hope!

(edit: library= from us users and our contributions...)

[Geezus]

I think it will be a while before we start to see any significant user library utilizing M4L because, as previously stated, current MAX users create things for themselves and dont share much. Therefore, it will be a new generation of MAX users that will really snowball the user library, but it will take time for current Live users with no MAX experience to get familiar enough with MAX to start pumping out quality patches. In some ways it isnt as easy as Reaktor so the learning curve is a little steeper and therefore wont have as extensive of a library as Reaktor, although the documentation and user experience is light years ahead so it wont prove to be a deal breaker in the long run. I give it about a year or two after M4L launches before we start to see the user library build up

[radib]

One of the differences between Max and Reaktor is that you can add external objects like oscilators, filters, random number generators...So a big part of the Max community is people coding objects in C - maxobjects.com, whereas with Reaktor there is no way to add external objects.

bits of time will travel making max more popular, which would increase motivation for the cracks to program a few really good sounding modules/objects - beyond that awful synthedit/reaktor quality.

[Poster]

One of the differences between Max and Reaktor is that you can add external objects like oscilators, filters, random number generators...So a big part of the Max community is people coding objects in C - maxobjects.com, whereas with Reaktor there is no way to add external objects.

bits of time will travel making max more popular, which would increase motivation for the cracks to program a few really good sounding modules/objects - beyond that awful synthedit/reaktor quality.

excuse me? Reaktor sounds as bad as you program it..

[parma]

here are some nice synths made with max/msp (but you need OSX and pluggo runtime to use):

http://www.audiooo.com/jp/freestuff/pluggo.html