[amo]Looper : does not record loop length to arrangement

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Angstrom
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[amo]Looper : does not record loop length to arrangement

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:50 am

You cannot actually record changing the length of the Loop (through using half/double) because those controls are not recorded.
Looper does not record the changes to loop length to the arrangement.

Reproduce
  • start arrangement recording
  • start the looper up as "record two bars then overdub"and record a two bar loop into it
  • double the length of the looper and play a four bar riff over the top
  • double the length of the looper again and play an eight bar loop over the top
  • stop the song and play back the arrangement
wjhen you play back the arrangement what you hear is all of the riffs (2,4 and 8 bar) will play back in the initial two bar loop length and it never increases as you intended!

It just stays at the initial length of two bars. You can check this by "add lane for each automated parameter" . There is no automated parameter for length, or for those buttons.

this is obviously a pretty bad thing as it means you can't record a looper performance as you play it - by extending the loop up from one bar to two, four, eight, etc.

it will just be stuck on one

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:29 pm

still an issue in b5

Amaury
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Post by Amaury » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:45 pm

Hi,

There's no automation recorded for these kinds of controls (push buttons), in Live. Only for sliders and ON/OFF buttons. It's not something that can easily be done and I'm afraid we'll have to live with this for now.

Regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:18 pm

argh,
that's going to be tricky !

so ... we can't actually record a looper session to arrangement then ?
unless the loops all stay at a fixed length, of course. That's a shame.

I'll have to look at making a hack using a midi loopback and a 3rd party midi-CC to keymap application.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:21 pm

Just a thought - but why don't you create an 'invisible' integer parameter named 'length' that the GUI momentary buttons affect.
Then you can show the 'hidden' integer envelopes in arrangement and you do not have to record the momentaries, only the resultant change to the intermediary integer.

We do not really want (or need) to see automation for those momentaries, only to see the 'outcome' value - 'length'.

Does that make sense?

Amaury
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Post by Amaury » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:30 am

Angstrom wrote:Just a thought - but why don't you create an 'invisible' integer parameter named 'length' that the GUI momentary buttons affect.
Then you can show the 'hidden' integer envelopes in arrangement and you do not have to record the momentaries, only the resultant change to the intermediary integer.

We do not really want (or need) to see automation for those momentaries, only to see the 'outcome' value - 'length'.

Does that make sense?
Hi,

A problem is that length can be anything from 15.3.3 to 0.0.1, beyond and in between. I'm not sure what kind of envelope would be able to represent that and be editable..

Regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:09 pm

Ah, that's not quite what I meant.

As you were talking about the difficulty of storing button presses (for double and halve) I meant setting a new 'length-doubling' parameter to represent only those button interactions. IE of halving or doubling any established value. The established value is already handled by your existing system
So, this new proposed parameter doesn't need to handle any tricky absolute values such as "15.3.3 " , but a only to provide a relative system, with a 'baseline at value 64, and with each press of double or halve incrementing or decrementing this 'offset' parameter from that baseline.

So for example: if a user records their initial loop using "record four bars then overdub", then at bar 16 presses the 'double' button, then the double button again, the outcome of this whole process would be:

bar 1 to bar 16 : this new parameter = 64 (the centerline or baseline value)
press once : this new parameter = 65 (double)
press again : this new parameter = 66 (double again)

the single digit increments representing a doubling of the initial value. The initial value is not relevant, it could easilly be and loop length of 3.1.2, or 0.0.3 - it would not matter. That initial length is handled by the (already recorded) pressing of the record and overdub buttons, and only the missing functions are handled by my proposed length-offset parameter.

with 64 values in each direction from the center line you have room for most eventualities. Doubling four bars 64 times gives a length of 3.40282367 × 10^38 bars 8O Enough for any eventuality I think! (Thanks to exponential doubling of course)

Well, I know it's not a perfect solution but, it would be a lot better than the current situation, which means we cant record our looper performances unless the length stays the same !

Amaury
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Re: [amo]Looper : does not record loop length to arrangement

Post by Amaury » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:26 am

Hi,

I move the thread away as this is a wish rather than a bug. I keep it on my list.

Regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

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