Sorry in advance for this - I'm in one of those self doubting dejected moods, but With this whole online world that will only get stronger, and vinyl pretty close to death (purely because at some point soon it wont be feasible for anyone to put up the cash to press it any more) I'm really struggling with justifying all the time I spend on this to the missus when I'm not sure I can ever promise an end to the poverty.
As ripped off as we were under the mega record co.s, I cant help thinking the ole fashioned way was at least a foot in the door (if you didnt do the John Fogerty thing and sign away EVERYTHING) - if you had the stomach to deal with the big headf^%k of how much you are being ripped off by the evil bankers dressed as record companies, it could at least set the stage for being well out in the limelight when you're contract ends - so you can then start your own label and keep EVERYTHING using the publicity your time with the major gave you.
That may be a load of misguided naive bollox, but after spending so much time doing this shite and having major battles with myself trying to ease back and have a normal life, I've been forced to deal with the realisation that I cant - I have no choice but to carry on trying to balance my obsession and the obscenely late nights required to get any time on it with the rest of my life and it's not easy.
Anyway - some nice toastie success stories most welcome - I dont want to be a superstar or millionaire - I just want someone to tell me it is at least possible to keep my family happy and have a relatively normal life doing music because I've given up fighting - I now have to accept this is not going to go away.
Thanks for listening!
is it possible to make money from music any more?
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special ed
- Posts: 216
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- Location: the outer heavens
i think nowdays if you just want to get by doing electronic music, you have to be dj'ing. there really isnt money in making tracks anymore, remixes there is but you have to be over-inflated and remixing shite like britney. there is plenty of money in music, its just in the hands of lawyers and accountants, and they only give pay to pop idols. its a business, they put out product, and expect a certain return on it. its not about music in the industry. the internet is something new in music, so there is a chance that it could be beneficial to the real artists, but on the other hand, it might not do anything, the reason being, real artists dont really have a unified community like the industry does. you cant really be a lone wolf in this because the competition is a monopolized corperate beast, the only way to take it on is for musicians to make their own industry and rule it with an iron fist. its all about being organized.
its important to be persistant with what your doing as well, but also finding a way to balance it with your life and relationships. ultimately having good family is more important than music, but for some of us it easier to find the music than good family, it would be nice to have both. if you want to make a living with music, think of a business plan for yourself thats within reach. me personally im not making any money, but im still in the process of making my plans. i used to be able to make a little cash writing and selling house tracks, but the dance industry is barely hanging on. pop and hip hop garbage seem to be where the money is at, and its not even good pop or hiphop. its too bad the guy that murdered dimebag darrell couldnt have been a jay-z or britney fan instead.
sorry if im adding to your self-doubting dejected mood, but i guess im a bit apathetic and pessimistic myself.
its important to be persistant with what your doing as well, but also finding a way to balance it with your life and relationships. ultimately having good family is more important than music, but for some of us it easier to find the music than good family, it would be nice to have both. if you want to make a living with music, think of a business plan for yourself thats within reach. me personally im not making any money, but im still in the process of making my plans. i used to be able to make a little cash writing and selling house tracks, but the dance industry is barely hanging on. pop and hip hop garbage seem to be where the money is at, and its not even good pop or hiphop. its too bad the guy that murdered dimebag darrell couldnt have been a jay-z or britney fan instead.
sorry if im adding to your self-doubting dejected mood, but i guess im a bit apathetic and pessimistic myself.
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hacktheplanet
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Winterpark
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:59 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
forge....
You can make money from it, but not really enough to live off, unless you've got your finger in about 4-5 different pies... regular paying gig... hooked up with an advertising company.... teaching... film music.... club promoting... whatever else....
Friends of mine have an awesome studio, and do remixes for $1000 AU, which seems like a pretty decent amount, but taking into consideration the amount of time they actually spend in the studio on stuff, really means they could make more working at McDonalds.
I'm lucky, in that i've got a job teaching music, and have the opportunity to do the late night creative sessions throughout school holidays....
Don't forget why you are making music... for the love of it, for the Art of it... and ask yourself this: could you live without doing it?
is that warm and toasty? i'm not sure.... maybe luke warm.
-am
You can make money from it, but not really enough to live off, unless you've got your finger in about 4-5 different pies... regular paying gig... hooked up with an advertising company.... teaching... film music.... club promoting... whatever else....
Friends of mine have an awesome studio, and do remixes for $1000 AU, which seems like a pretty decent amount, but taking into consideration the amount of time they actually spend in the studio on stuff, really means they could make more working at McDonalds.
I'm lucky, in that i've got a job teaching music, and have the opportunity to do the late night creative sessions throughout school holidays....
Don't forget why you are making music... for the love of it, for the Art of it... and ask yourself this: could you live without doing it?
is that warm and toasty? i'm not sure.... maybe luke warm.
-am
i know how you feel(24years in music and counting)
but it seems to me that there is more opportunity than there ever has been... the internet is an amazing thing, and is causing huge problems for the corporate music giants....there are far more avenues for self-promotion, releasing your own material, and getting work(you no longer have to live in nyc or la...the session scene in both cities is drying up...)
all thanks to the digital technology we now have.
you do, however, have to have your fingers in multiple pies to get by,
but at least they can all be musical...
seems these days you do have to just push yourself hard out there....
not ideal for "artists" but not impossible either!
my attitude is never give up!(i have no recourse at this point anyway)
and to quote gel-sol,
"keep you're eyes on the prize- the music"
cheers
dk
but it seems to me that there is more opportunity than there ever has been... the internet is an amazing thing, and is causing huge problems for the corporate music giants....there are far more avenues for self-promotion, releasing your own material, and getting work(you no longer have to live in nyc or la...the session scene in both cities is drying up...)
all thanks to the digital technology we now have.
you do, however, have to have your fingers in multiple pies to get by,
but at least they can all be musical...
seems these days you do have to just push yourself hard out there....
not ideal for "artists" but not impossible either!
my attitude is never give up!(i have no recourse at this point anyway)
and to quote gel-sol,
"keep you're eyes on the prize- the music"
cheers
dk
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john gordon
- Posts: 2680
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:24 am
- Location: Delaware
i was only interested in making house music for a while,but im opening my mind now to try other things.maybe you wont be making money on dance music but with soundtracks,commercials,video games etc.then while you making mad cash you can still bust out the electronic dance stuff for your head and your peers.peace and good luck to everyone with that same fuckin dream.
You can make money on music, and you guys are being exceptionally negative! With the hundreds of online retailers opening up, like iTunes, Rhapsody, Wippit and various others, it's never been easier to get a small label going and get your tunes out there. Even if you start up your own site and market your tunes to people, you can still sell a lot of music. I think that the online revolution is a great thing because it takes away from the homogenising majors (i.e. they put out everything that sounds the same) and puts control back into the hands of the muso's. I think music will become much more diverse and interesting as a result and that dj's will begin to include tracks in their sets that they never would have before, simply because they have so much choice and hear so many tracks that they like. Don't give up on your dream, you'll get where you want to go eventually, it's just a matter of time!
"It's better to burn out than to fade away!"
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adhmzaiusz
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- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:32 am
- Location: the country side outside of Toronto
man what discourages me and all my friends is how attainable it is to make good music with just a computer. And how damn cheap. Everybody can do it and do it even for free!
ive spent a fortune on gear in the past to do what most people can do easily for free with programs like reason. all the money between my friends and i and we could have bought a house. almost feels like ive waisted more money than i could ever make back. the good thing is you cant pirate the sound of a virus! (yet as far as i know...) at least some things arent as attainable by everyone.
im wondering whats going to happen with software when the best and unique things are cheap as hell and everyone can get one.
man, the music business is a mess.
ive spent a fortune on gear in the past to do what most people can do easily for free with programs like reason. all the money between my friends and i and we could have bought a house. almost feels like ive waisted more money than i could ever make back. the good thing is you cant pirate the sound of a virus! (yet as far as i know...) at least some things arent as attainable by everyone.
im wondering whats going to happen with software when the best and unique things are cheap as hell and everyone can get one.
man, the music business is a mess.
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stockbender
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:31 am
"im wondering whats going to happen with software when the best and unique things are cheap as hell and everyone can get one."
what happens?, well the value of music goes down like it has been...respect goes down...and eventually interest fades because the mystery factors are slowly removed/revealed...this is a moment in time where there is a big active "filter" turned on , that is working out who is for real and not...since now little is placed upon value other than its true primal form, it is really upto ______ to continue and get better or fade into another craft
what happens?, well the value of music goes down like it has been...respect goes down...and eventually interest fades because the mystery factors are slowly removed/revealed...this is a moment in time where there is a big active "filter" turned on , that is working out who is for real and not...since now little is placed upon value other than its true primal form, it is really upto ______ to continue and get better or fade into another craft
Last edited by stockbender on Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for the replies all!
In a way what alot of you said about the internet is the problem! Too many people out there now - just seems to make it that much harder to get out there - admittedly I'm not speaking from experience because I dont seem to have finished anything to a stage where I want to promote it in ages
I'm actually not bothered at all about money - all I've ever wanted to spend it on is music gear(which I'm pretty sorted with now), beer, weed and the occasional Pub dinner, I dont even need petrol any more as my car broke and will be too much to fix!
My problem is the time:money ratio. In order to get the time I need on my music to feel happy I cant work very much for other people, and even the couple of days I do I usually go too knackered because I've been up late the night before
maybe we all need to develop a kind of musical communism - a collective kitty where we all chuck in, get our music online and the money gets invested and we all get a dividend (ok, call it capitalist communism
?)
the worldwide fund for musicians!
In a way what alot of you said about the internet is the problem! Too many people out there now - just seems to make it that much harder to get out there - admittedly I'm not speaking from experience because I dont seem to have finished anything to a stage where I want to promote it in ages
I'm actually not bothered at all about money - all I've ever wanted to spend it on is music gear(which I'm pretty sorted with now), beer, weed and the occasional Pub dinner, I dont even need petrol any more as my car broke and will be too much to fix!
My problem is the time:money ratio. In order to get the time I need on my music to feel happy I cant work very much for other people, and even the couple of days I do I usually go too knackered because I've been up late the night before
maybe we all need to develop a kind of musical communism - a collective kitty where we all chuck in, get our music online and the money gets invested and we all get a dividend (ok, call it capitalist communism
?) the worldwide fund for musicians!
I think you've got a point there - everyone might be able to do it, but not everyone can do it WELL.stockbender wrote:"im wondering whats going to happen with software when the best and unique things are cheap as hell and everyone can get one."
what happens?, well the value of music goes down like it has been...respect goes down...and eventually interest fades because the mystery factors are slowly removed/revealed...this is a moment in time where there is a big active "filter" turned on , that is working out who is for real and not...since now little is placed upon value , it is really upto ______ to continue or fade into another craft
Picasso said "inspiration exists but it has to find you working" - so it will only be the ones who are prepared to work their bollocks off that will catch it, and maybe we CAN take for granted that people out there will always want to listen to something inspired!
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stockbender
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:31 am
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stockbender
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:31 am
and no matter what there will always be innovation and music will continue....just cause there are alot of mushrooms now, doesnt mean theyll exist next season...its a phase...not everyone's architecture was designed to hold such positions, the funny thing is about music, is that so many of my friends for instance jumped right in cause they saw how easy it was, or were tempted by fame or whatever , and the deeper they got into it , the more they began to realize just how difficult and demanding it really is...not everyone can be elected president, nor a picasso...
who's music?
There's always a need for music..whether it's yours is the question. people will always be paying for music ..ok, maybe just for the next 20 years or so, then artificial intelligence takes over and music for most general purposes will be "created" automatically. sort of like with Live..just kidding..maybe..
because if someone 30 years ago told me (a working bassist at the time) about a program like Live..where you had phrases "tripped" by a computer (whas dat?)..drum loops (whas a drum loop?) every wonderful thing Live does..I would have doubted it, then said something like..but what about musicians?
which I am still thinking about btw.
the tools change..but music is always needed, and paid for. I have the choice daily to make music as an artist..writing what I write..or being a commercial artist..doing a job for someone who wants something..that's always been a choice though. also see J.S.. Bach
'nother inneresting little ting mon...You know how computers and software have leveled the field, at least production wise? There are a lot (at least here in Chicago) of people who used to make a living..a GOOD living, middle class and up- playing on things that one person can now do with Live..jobs are gone. So what do they do? Get gigs playing live again..but the gigs..are with those dreadful shite 60s/70/and now 80's and next year 90's retreads that haven't had a good idea since they recorded their first "opus" in 1976..and for 99% of them..it weren't that good the first time around neither, you know?..but this next summer, when you are in your town's village green..check out the bands playing at the local "festival"..crap like 2 Dog Night (because the 3rd guy is now an actuary...)..they make LOTTZA money..$500, $700, $900 a man a show..an hours work phoning in "Eye of the Newt" or whatever the fucking song was...I have been tempted to join one..I really have. But I'd rather drive a truck (as Ricky Nelson said ...in '76)
But make music/support your family? First you figure out what it is you make (a life long project btw) then you go find someone or thing that likes it enough to pay for it. Good Luck, and I really mean it- you'll need it. We all do in the Arts.
sorry for the rant..but i been thinking about the same question for a long time.
because if someone 30 years ago told me (a working bassist at the time) about a program like Live..where you had phrases "tripped" by a computer (whas dat?)..drum loops (whas a drum loop?) every wonderful thing Live does..I would have doubted it, then said something like..but what about musicians?
which I am still thinking about btw.
the tools change..but music is always needed, and paid for. I have the choice daily to make music as an artist..writing what I write..or being a commercial artist..doing a job for someone who wants something..that's always been a choice though. also see J.S.. Bach
'nother inneresting little ting mon...You know how computers and software have leveled the field, at least production wise? There are a lot (at least here in Chicago) of people who used to make a living..a GOOD living, middle class and up- playing on things that one person can now do with Live..jobs are gone. So what do they do? Get gigs playing live again..but the gigs..are with those dreadful shite 60s/70/and now 80's and next year 90's retreads that haven't had a good idea since they recorded their first "opus" in 1976..and for 99% of them..it weren't that good the first time around neither, you know?..but this next summer, when you are in your town's village green..check out the bands playing at the local "festival"..crap like 2 Dog Night (because the 3rd guy is now an actuary...)..they make LOTTZA money..$500, $700, $900 a man a show..an hours work phoning in "Eye of the Newt" or whatever the fucking song was...I have been tempted to join one..I really have. But I'd rather drive a truck (as Ricky Nelson said ...in '76)
But make music/support your family? First you figure out what it is you make (a life long project btw) then you go find someone or thing that likes it enough to pay for it. Good Luck, and I really mean it- you'll need it. We all do in the Arts.
sorry for the rant..but i been thinking about the same question for a long time.