Sample vs. Sampler vs. Simpler? Impulse vs. Drum Racks?

[moodles]

I'm new to Ableton and the forum so these questions may be obvious or may have been addressed before.

I'm trying to build up a library of small samples taken from full song mp3s and then triggering them using either drum pads or a midi keyboard. What are the pros and cons of working directly with an audio clip vs. dropping the clip into either Simpler or Sampler? In what cases would it be better to use each of these? And in what cases is it better to use Impulse vs. Drum Racks to manage samples?

Basically, I'm having a hard time assessing the relative values of these instruments. I'm particularly interested in the tradeoff between features and CPU impact.

[oddstep]

impulse can only hold 8 short samples, drum racks and sampler can handle upto 128 samples of any length (possibly limited by disk read speeds, ram etc). Midimapping notes to launch audio clips is alright but will create a lot of workflow issues if you're using a large number of samples-- especially if you don't want any limitations on what plays simultaneously.
impulse is interesting to use- timestretching, automated effects on each sample, using a single sampler for multiple sounds can be good if you want to process all the samples in the same way (eg all have a lpf on them), drum rack is easiest way to set up massive drumset with different effects on each hit.

[moodles]

Is there a way to assign warped samples to drum rack slots or to a keyboard without losing the warping?

I'd like to build an instument with a collection of short warped samples where each key triggers a different sample so that I can program and tweak it in a midi editor. But I'm finding that the samples no longer warp when I dump them into a drum rack. Is there a way to preserve the warping?

[oddstep]

Not really. Its possible to get simpler/sampler to carry out old skool timestretching by creating really short loops and either automating loop start point (simpler) or modulating loop start point with a saw wave lfo set to a meaningfull interval (sampler)... they're both workable techniques but they don't sound the same as warping (to me). I generally render to audio at the bpm I intend to use - slice into a rack, maybe save the individual hits as simplers labelled with their bpm. Which is sort of alright - without really doing exactly what I want.

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

If you wanna keep the warping, you need to stick with clips. You do know that you can midi map a clip to a range of keys (c1-c3 for example), right? To make them playable (pitch wise) and still keep your warps.

.m

[ayentee]

If you wanna keep the warping, you need to stick with clips. You do know that you can midi map a clip to a range of keys (c1-c3 for example), right? To make them playable (pitch wise) and still keep your warps.

.m

can you edit the start points as well to create sample chopping?

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

Loop points - yes. Chopping is a different matter. Slice to midi for that, which automatically makes drum racks (with Simplers or Samplers) for you.

.m

[pepezabala]

Loop points - yes. Chopping is a different matter. Slice to midi for that, which automatically makes drum racks (with Simplers or Samplers) for you.

.m

yes and no, because sometimes you want to chop warped stuff. Could be fun to chop warped clips from a given song and then do something like this here, and not only at original tempo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wO0dFPeyXA

(the video shows how to chop up a beat into several clips and then use follow actions to randomize/break the beat).

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

Loop points - yes. Chopping is a different matter. Slice to midi for that, which automatically makes drum racks (with Simplers or Samplers) for you.

.m

yes and no, because sometimes you want to chop warped stuff. Could be fun to chop warped clips from a given song and then do something like this here, and not only at original tempo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wO0dFPeyXA

(the video shows how to chop up a beat into several clips and then use follow actions to randomize/break the beat).

Sure. But not if you want to midi map to key range as I was talking about before.

.m

[pepezabala]

ya. So many possibilities ...

In order to get back to the OP, some general advice would be:

- Clips: to use when you want to warp your audio to the beat

- simpler: to use if you want to trigger your sample from a keyboard/midi controller or from a midi-clip.

-drum rack: if you have various samples to trigger (at only one pitch)

- sampler: to use when building multisample-instruments or when applying more advanced sounddesign to your samples.

but there are so many different ways to use all of these tools.
Regarding CPU: Be aware that drumracks contain simplers, so a drumrack with 64 cells are actually 64 simplers! That can get heavy on cpu. But no issue with Live: Just freeze/flatten everything that you don't want to weak live and you free your ressources like that.

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

ya. So many possibilities ...

...and how we love it.

Regarding CPU: Be aware that drumracks contain simplers, so a drumrack with 64 cells are actually 64 simplers! That can get heavy on cpu.

But Live is smart - the Simplers don't tax the CPU much unless they're playing. But when you play 64 drum hits at a time. Yausa! That'll whoop your cpu cycles into a frenzy!

.m

[moodles]

Thanks for all the great replies!

So is it true that Simplers are more CPU intensive than Samplers?

It's a bit frustrating that you can't keep your warping when you dump clips into other instruments. This would be so helpful because then I'd be able to stitch them together rhythmically in a midi editor.

I guess my next best option is to try stitching together my clips in Arrangement view, consolidating them, and then copying them back into Session view.

Is there any more elegant way to do this type of editing?

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

So is it true that Simplers are more CPU intensive than Samplers?

Nope. Don't think so. Not when doing the same things. But once you start using the synthesis and sound mangling capabilities of Sampler, of course that's gonna cost you more.

.m

[cl516]

I like that in Simpler and in Looper, the varispeed / pitchshifting is NOT quantized.

But with launching clips, all I can see is Transpose quantized - limited to Semitones.

Can the Clip Launch section do a finer transpose?

[Navarre]

Plenty have commented on the pros and cons of each instrument, but concerning the warping, if you want to conserve it - and this is a concern I've had in the past - try bouncing the audio into a new clip with the warping on. I don't know if freezing and then dragging the clip into simpler/sampler/impulse/drum rack would work, but I imagine that recording the output of the track bearing the warped sample into another clip in another track would work. Granted, you would have to redo all the samples if you decide to change the bpm mid project.