Does ableton bottleneck sound quality?

[steve-o]

Well, I take it by the responses that my issue is somehow not experienced by others, or somewhat trivial. Anyway, as I said, I've been using Live exclusively since 1.5, and have never been bothered about sound quality. I work around whatever "limitation" there may be and enjoy the program. But I bought these samples from goldbaby, which demoed great and have amazing reviews. In the browser they sound great; in session view they sound different. I have no other DAW to compare to, never used windows either.

I tried using the search function but it was useless.

[rbro]

Well, I take it by the responses that my issue is somehow not experienced by others, or somewhat trivial. Anyway, as I said, I've been using Live exclusively since 1.5, and have never been bothered about sound quality. I work around whatever "limitation" there may be and enjoy the program. But I bought these samples from goldbaby, which demoed great and have amazing reviews. In the browser they sound great; in session view they sound different. I have no other DAW to compare to, never used windows either.

I tried using the search function but it was useless.

Have you tried them with different warp modes?

[leedsquietman]

Live's audio is not 'lo-res' unless you made it be that way by using lots of processes such as timestretching loops in a mode other than repitch, or by poor mixing and engineering. (or deliberate use of stuff like bitcrushing or saturation to create a lo or medium fi effect). Also remember that you can overdrive levels in any DAW with 32 or 64 bit audio engines and you won't get distortion or clipping unless you are over by extreme amounts, but when you render your mix, clipping and digital distortion will have serious artifacts and consequences on sound on a .wav or .mp3 track etc.

I have used Protools HD, Logic, Soundforge, Wavelab, Vegas, Cubase and Live and can tell you that the sound quality issue is just a myth. Live 7 introduced 64 bit mix summing. Read the audio paper in the Live 7 manual.

Where some people complain about Live's sound quality, they are mostly talking about plugins rather than the live audio engine. We've had the tests done before on raw, unprocessed audio files and there is no difference. I'm happy to use Live for mixing as much as anything else.

[Machinesworking]

So my friends and I were considering grabbing a UAD-1/2 card, but when we were chatting with a gent from the music store, he said we wouldn't be able to get out the quality of the plug-ins/card if we used Ableton.

That we would need Logic Pro or Pro Tools to really take advantage of it.

Any thoughts on this?

Half the gents that work in music stores think you can use the vocoder in Reason on your vocals. Let's you know how valuable their advice is.

[rbro]

So my friends and I were considering grabbing a UAD-1/2 card, but when we were chatting with a gent from the music store, he said we wouldn't be able to get out the quality of the plug-ins/card if we used Ableton.

That we would need Logic Pro or Pro Tools to really take advantage of it.

Any thoughts on this?

Half the gents that work in music stores think you can use the vocoder in Reason on your vocals. Let's you know how valuable their advice is.

The music stores near me don't even know what Reason is. You can get a good deal on Clarinet reeds though........

[steve-o]

Well, I take it by the responses that my issue is somehow not experienced by others, or somewhat trivial. Anyway, as I said, I've been using Live exclusively since 1.5, and have never been bothered about sound quality. I work around whatever "limitation" there may be and enjoy the program. But I bought these samples from goldbaby, which demoed great and have amazing reviews. In the browser they sound great; in session view they sound different. I have no other DAW to compare to, never used windows either.

I tried using the search function but it was useless.

Have you tried them with different warp modes?

Not using any warp modes - just dropping into simpler or sampler. Same effect when loading the samples into a vst like GURU. No processing applied, besides that which would occur by instantiating simpler or sampler. I would totally say that this is due to poor mixing skills, if it wasn't for this.

Thanks for trying to help though!

[Machinesworking]

So my friends and I were considering grabbing a UAD-1/2 card, but when we were chatting with a gent from the music store, he said we wouldn't be able to get out the quality of the plug-ins/card if we used Ableton.

That we would need Logic Pro or Pro Tools to really take advantage of it.

Any thoughts on this?

Half the gents that work in music stores think you can use the vocoder in Reason on your vocals. Let's you know how valuable their advice is.

The music stores near me don't even know what Reason is. You can get a good deal on Clarinet reeds though........

Nice, at least they won't say stupid shit then.

[j2j]

just dropping into simpler or sampler.

@ steve-o

Using simpler or sampler, will change the sound of a drum sample. I don't know what is up with that?

Its weird.

But I do know...

I used to make a kick on Rapture, throw it into sampler, and get not the same kick. Nowadays, I make em on Rapture, throw em into impulse, I get the same kick.

--Don't quote me....

But the transient is getting lost somehow on Simpler, or Sampler. There is a general thinning out of sound, with Live's Simpler, and Sampler.

--Not scientific at all.....

N e wayZe...

I don't know what is up with GuRu, as I don't own it yet. But its possible, there is extra processing, or eq, on the gold baby browser mp3s...

As far as Live's sound quality goes......... Its fine.... I think..

I really don't see an end to the economic meltdown, but if it ever gets here, I'd probably be doing my summing on a dangerous music box.

I know folk, who used to think Logic had a better summing engine than Cubase, there is a good chance, the same folk have decided, Logic has a better summing engine than Live.

Is there any fact here? Probably not.

Although, Mulab, sounds a lot cleaner than Live. Live seems to paint everything it does with a strange shade of gray. Its very, very, strange.

Its a vibe. It can be part of your overall sound. Like everything, you must learn to use it to your advantage.

[aqua_tek]

Well, I take it by the responses that my issue is somehow not experienced by others, or somewhat trivial. Anyway, as I said, I've been using Live exclusively since 1.5, and have never been bothered about sound quality. I work around whatever "limitation" there may be and enjoy the program. But I bought these samples from goldbaby, which demoed great and have amazing reviews. In the browser they sound great; in session view they sound different. I have no other DAW to compare to, never used windows either.

I tried using the search function but it was useless.

Have you tried them with different warp modes?

Not using any warp modes - just dropping into simpler or sampler. Same effect when loading the samples into a vst like GURU. No processing applied, besides that which would occur by instantiating simpler or sampler. I would totally say that this is due to poor mixing skills, if it wasn't for this.

Thanks for trying to help though!

I've sort of noticed what you said too, but i don't think i'd go as far as saying I've noticed a difference in "punch". I think it's just an issue of samples playing louder on the browser. Notice, that when you load them into Simpler, or a Drum Rack, for example, the "volume" box (far right side, just under the waveform display) in Simpler defaults to -12 dB. Soon as I bring that up, it all sounds fine. Also a very uneducated opinion

[leedsquietman]

Logic and Cubase both use precision 32 bit float engines, there is no difference for raw audio. I've used both of these DAWS ad nauseaum, and although there is a difference in the quality of the plugins in the box (in favour of Logic, although C5 has addressed this somewhat), using the same 3rd party plugs or raw audio, no difference.

There is also a perception that Samplitude has better audio quality, because it was the first to have internal 32 bit float mixing, over 24 bit. Maybe at the time there was a small difference, but that doesn't exist any more. People always think Logic and Cubase's audio is poor because they both started as MIDI only apps in the days of the Atari 1040, but both have been totally rebuilt and not just having audio 'tacked on'. Cubase did this when they took Nuendo's audio engine and put it into SX after VST 5.

Uneducated was a good description. And the myth of Live being poorer is just that, a myth, but it gives other DAW snobs something to BS about. Just get on and make some frickin' music will ya !!

[rbmonosylabik]

Live's browser applies a fade in/out to the samples being played back, which Simpler/Impulse doesn't. So the sample played on either one is the real deal, not how it sounds on the browser. Try making the attack longer in Simpler and see how it resembles more what you get from the browser. Impulse's default 2 s decay may change the sound though, so make sure you crank it up to the max before loading samples.

[mrsakitumi]

The last DAW I used before Ableton (1.5) was DP (2 or 3 I believe). I never really followed the sound quality issues to be honest. But I'd like to now why there is a distinct difference in sound between samples auditioned in the browser and the same sampled when imported into an Ableton set. I particularly get frustrated with kick drum sounds. In the browser they see so full and punchy with no extra processing; imported into ableton seems to thin them out.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

hi steve-o,
I read somewhere in the forum that for kicks and stuff, you need to deactivate the "fade" in the clip envelope.
Live automatically has it on when importing any audio files.
the initial fade is what might be dampening the attack of the kick.
hope it helps.
mr sakitumi[/quote]

[mrsakitumi]

also check that you don't have warp mode on for stuff that doesn't need time stretching.

[Johnisfaster]

it's been a long time since we had this discussion.

before any of us go into proving that things really do sound the same when doing this or doing that or between this daw and that daw I recommend letting people who think there is a difference between when you do this or do that or this daw and that daw to take a moment to prove there is a difference (with audio clips and details). then, IF there is a difference, we can explain to them what they are doing wrong and how they've failed.

[SubFunk]

Honestly the sound quality in Live sucks ass, it's really really bad. I've been donating (selling) my blood once a week just to save up enough money to buy back Logic. It sounds SOOOO much better, like I'd be signed to a real record label in a heartbeat if I wasn't using Live instead right now

At least the new Live 8 version will finally output 8 bit mixdowns, dealing with 7 bit mixdowns for the last year has been killing me.

i don't get the joke propperly...? right?
or are you serious?