is it possible to make money from music any more?

[onyxashanti]

dude, it's a very...experimental time to be a musician.

the things we are doing now are gonna dictate how this game is played, for generations. we are, for better or worse, pioneers. we inherit a democratized music creation system that allows evryone to realize thier musical visions, and a de centralized global distribution system. they can't even stop the criminals effectively, on the internet, so it is open season for us to try different ways to get our messages out. it is a time that we'll tell our kids about, but...

this shit aint easy, and it's getting more difficult to be heard above the hundreds of thousands of other screaming voices. i, personally, find it very difficult "Right now", but i do expect it to get waaaay better very shortly. i predict that you have 5 years to get your house in order; play the gigs, put out your music on your website, etc, because soon, mp3 download to phone, and invisible micopayment systems are gonna allow you to be able to talk to someone after your gig [for example] and right then nd there, they'll be able to go to your website from their phone, and down load your latest. the tech is there, but i don't see it as viable until my mom does it [i almost freaked when i got my first email from her...]. so in the meantime, you build your fanbase and your reputation. the money comes, but it comes in chunks, so you got to be prepared or when the pieces start flying.

i've been doing this for 15 years. i've played all over the world and feel very good about my artistic accomplishements. that said...right now i am too broke to do anything, and i am so depressed that i barely go out, BUT this is the cycle of these things, and you just roll with it and keep going. i use my depressed state to inspire me. works...sometimes.

another way, is one that i used to do before i came to europe, and may do again once i get back to the US. street busking. man, i made fuckiing great money doing that. that's a whole other hustle, but if you do the circuit [street fests, block parties, tube stations] the money can be way better than you would hope to make in "tha biz". i use to do DnB in SF, and it was great...not great enough to keep doing it, but it's an option. it doesnt exactly line you up for a grammy, but you can be artistic, make good money [if you learn the game], and build a very devoted following who will buy your [now more easily available] music from your site, from now on...i still mail out some of my older CDs. and now there is a download chart, so you will, one day soon, be able to be on a "chart" based on your downloads, which is great for publicity and sponsorship.

but the person above was right; it's definitely a last man standing kind of game, and you had better start slapping on a bit of that skin thickener, because making big money from your music, as with most things, doesnt solve your problems...just gives you new ones...[heh, yeah right!! as if i know..(where the hell did i put that zoloft!!...)]

onyx

[wildcon]

Hi Guys,

All very interesting and valid points.

I was looking at a similar post on another website recently which went along the lines of -

" I'm a trained classical musician, who has devoted his life to attaining a level of musicianship etc etc ..... and am now being put out of work by some guy coming along with a sample orchestra in a box and triggering it with a mini keyboard etc etc..." !

Unfortunately 'all' levels of musician are being hit by 'technology' and the 'corporate greed' syndrome.

I tend to look at things a slightly different way. Maybe this is because I am older and can still remember whooping with excitement at getting my first Yamaha 4 track cassette recorder.

Despite being a more than capable guitarist, I've never set out to make money from music, prefering to keep it as a indulgent hobby.
However, with the modern equipment available (I use mainly Cubase, Live and NI synths and a podxt for my guitar input) I now find that I can produce professional quality tracks that are almost good enough to release without any outside input.

To me this is staggering and something I never dreamed of. The possibility of getting something released that I have totally played and produced myself has made me much more focussed and productive in my output.

I think people are realising that there needs to be an easier way to get tunes onto the net. I think it's one of the guy's from 'Blur' (Could be wrong) who's setting up a site where you can post your music without all the itunes type hassle and just a basic contract (I'll check it out and post the address).

I don't think the Familiy situation can easily be rectified. Music tends to be 'all encompasing' for me and I'm having real problems with my current girlfriend. I tend to stay up very, very late for a couple of days a week to get stuff done, which is no good to anyone. I'm going for the laptop option , which should give me more time and will allow me to get out of the bedroom and ineteract with other musicians more. Unfortunately the downside of the 'studio in your home' scenario.

At the end of the day there has, and always will be, a very small percentage of people who can make a good living from the thing they love, especially in the artistic fields.

So whether you are making money or not - enjoy it

[jahnlay]

Music is a business, just like anything else. It's a percentage game, for those of you that do a sport, that requires exceptionally hard work and slog. Not only producing the music, that's only the beginning. You then have to get it heard (radio), reviewed (press), distributed and sold. Like any other business, it needs to be nurtured and developed. I know that I could go out and sell 200 copies of a cd to my family and friends without too much hassle. The trick is to develop this process to be able to sell it to people that you don't know. The music has to be good, but this has nothing to do with talent. As you grow your business, you can hire in specialists to work on each sector. I've been working on my business for 12 years, and while it doesn't yield profits that would make me a millionaire, it looks after me. There are a lot of changes happening in the business at the moment and a lot of people are despondent about the old systems falling out of place, but the new ones are starting to show yields. 200 million downloads since april 2003 is no joke. People are spending money on music. I know I download of lot of music these days. As more people cotton on to broadband, music can only grow. The search process for music has become so easy that your music only has to be available to get heard. I scan through thousands of 30 sec clips each week, looking for new stuff. I really feel that music is about to see a much needed boost over the next year, record companies are already feeling the shot in the arm that ringtones are providing for them. And there's nothing special about me or any of the other musos making a living out there, we just work at it. So stop maonig about the fact that it's hard and get on with it, or else go and work at Mcdonalds. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!

[forge]

The hard thing comes in when you have a family really - they place huge demands on your time and even though I think we're doing well considering, it's a bleak thought thinking there's a possibility my lifestyle could mean always being poor - I suppose at the heart of it I still believe it will get better otherwise I probably would do something about it

being poor isnt exactly fun, but poverty doesnt neccessarily mean unhappy either. you got to find the right balance. its better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. it sounds like your problem isnt so much a lack of money from music, but perhaps you want to be able to give more to your family? the thing is this, you can give to them as a person, by your role that you play in your family. having wealth and being wealthy doesnt have anything to do with money, which is just a fucking piece of paper that burns. look more at what you got rather than what you want, you just might find some contentment. when it all comes down to it, everyone here including myself making rants about the music bussiness, while although valid, we are more upset about the discontentment in our own lives. it really has nothing to do with music or money.

thats just a thought for today.

Thanks Ed - I know you're right and I'm really lucky with what I have

THink I need to lay off the weed for a bit - it get's me really excited about things but I think it makes it harder to handle the everday stuff - tend to get bored easier!

[forge]

I don't think the Familiy situation can easily be rectified. Music tends to be 'all encompasing' for me and I'm having real problems with my current girlfriend. I tend to stay up very, very late for a couple of days a week to get stuff done, which is no good to anyone. I'm going for the laptop option , which should give me more time and will allow me to get out of the bedroom and ineteract with other musicians more. Unfortunately the downside of the 'studio in your home' scenario.

glad to know I'm not alone - sounds just like me!! But I have to say, dont hold out on the laptop solving it - in my experience it just means you sit on the sofa rather than hunched over a desk or whatever - but that's still a good thing! Of course there is the portability option but it doesnt solve the late night thing - and to be truthful I think one of the reasons for the late nights is because it is a great time to get left alone and get some peace and quiet - unless I can get hold of some studio space where I can get left alone and turn my speakers up then I cant see how I can change it - I just find it really hard to work during the day because of distractions

I just think music is more a night thingt anyhoo

[forge]

Just to add - really quite significant actually

I've never been a Simply Red fan - Mick Hucknall always annoyed me because he seemed so full of himself, but he's gone up in my estimations considerably after I heard him on the radio the other day talking about record deals and how little press attention is given to the fact that they are one of the most absurdly bad rip offs around in that they are just big loans but when you have paid them off you dont actually own anything. Bit different to higher purchase.

Anyway, as a fight back - in his words his attempt to do his bit to change the way the industry works - they are re-recording their entire greatest hits so that they are in direct competition with the rec. co.s greatest hits but own it themselves.

Good idea really.

He did say however it's alright for them because people know who they are - but if more like them do manage to change things it might make it better for all - he was saying that it should be done as some kind of lease system.

[Akshara]

As a recording artist who makes a living from royalties on CD sales, here's my advice...

- Know your audience
- Offer something that is wanted and valuable
- Create a sound that is uniquely identified with you
- Do your own artwork, engineering and production
- Take the final product to a professional mastering facility
- Hire an agent, manager and publicist and give them a worthwhile cut
- Design music for a less competitive genre
- Make a high quality product that retailers will want to carry
- Shop around to independent retailers, both online and in stores
- Shop around to minor or independent labels
- Use promotional tools like Taxi, MP3.com, Soundclick, IM messaging, etc.
- Don't. Give. Up.

If you follow all or most of the above, I guarantee that you'll make at least some form of income from selling your music - to what level is directly proportionate to your desire and seriousness to do so. Artist's who take their careers seriously tend to get taken seriously by others in the industry. Define who you are, who your audience is, and make connections with those who can and want to help you reach them - industry professionals and retailers. One doesn't need a major record deal to accomplish this... it's just easier that way for some, though potentially more costly in the long run.

To the question of the potential dilution of the market due to the abundance of quality sample libraries and audio production tools...

Make your stuff better. In the '60s, just because any average joe could purchase a Strat or Les Paul and a rack of effects and amps, didn't make everyone a Hendrix or Santana. Create a unique sound that uses all of these tools in an exceptional manner. The future is in your hands...

"All of the buildings, all of those cars
were once just a dream
in somebody's head..."
~ Peter Gabriel, Mercy Street

[psilosly]

and btw, do any of you "the internet is the salvation of us musicians cause all youse gots to do is get yer tune on itunes" kiddies know how much Steve Jobs thinks your shit is worth? take a GOOD look here:
http://www.downhillbattle.org/

How about making this link a little more specific.

[Hypomixolydian]

I really feel that music is about to see a much needed boost over the next year, record companies are already feeling the shot in the arm that ringtones are providing for them. And there's nothing special about me or any of the other musos making a living out there, we just work at it. So stop maonig about the fact that it's hard and get on with it, or else go and work at Mcdonalds. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!

How naive!!!! Haven't you read the previous posts??? What people are experiencing??? MAYBE in South Africa it is as "EASY" as you say it is. I'd like to hear you say that over in Europe or the US where the situation is I would imagine far, far different. Internet is not going to save you either. I have already made my remarks on a previous post about internet so I won't repeat myself. Let me add too that if, as you say, "there is nothing special about you" then you have no hope in the US or Europe. No one will give a shit about your music because so much of it around that is pretty good.

[warabunga]

just read the first page of the thread and want to give my point of view.

I think there's enough people with money whome have musical needs. maybe not only in the classical sense of "music making" but like the film industry needs good music (not musicians...), tv spots, exhibitions, museums, radio stations, publicity and grosher stores as well... practically everything that produces sound needs someone makin it, or doesn't it?
it might not always feel that good as makin your OWN sound, but it still is close to it and you get to improove yourself in making your proper sound. it's there but you have to get it... I think, like a lot of things, it needs a good will to really do it.
I'm not there, but I'm working on it. I know it's got to be possible and I believe in it ;-)
PEACE!

[jahnlay]

Yes Astral Fridge Magnet, that's why I'm actually touring Europe next year and am selling music over the internet in both the States and Europe. I've been making enough money to survive in music for the past 12 years. It's not any easier in my country than it is in Europe or the States to make money in music, but there are people doing it. Is it because they're more talented or better at it than you, I don't think so. They just work smartly at it and manage to do it in such a way that people appreciate it enough to pay for it. I think it's your attitude that's your downfall. Get over yourself. If your average pub muso can go out to restaurants and pubs and make a decent living going through the motions of playing other people's music, just about anybody can do it. And I'm not saying that that's easy either, in fact it's harder than most other ways of making a living in music, almost soul destroying. But people do it and make a living doing it!

[montrealbreaks]

I was kind of hoping Rahlo would chime in here on this issue -

He makes money through self promotion, touring and DILLIGENCE.

I mean, Rahlo supports himself and his family with only his music - and not to paste another guy's personal life on the internet - it's a challenge but he has succeeded quite well at it.

For a model on how to make it independently in the music biz check:

http://www.blacksoilproject.com

Anyways, I might have come off negative earlier - I am not disrespecting those who want to make a living through music; it's just WAAAAY more work than I am prepared to put into it. For me, music is the fun "other" part of my life, and that's a decision I made years ago. I understand that it's not the right decision for everybody, and I can respect those who perservere and can actually support themselves with music. Hell, I have to respect - they're tougher than I am.

Good luck to all in all that you wish for.