Guitar players, spew your wisdom on tone here

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:33 pm

OK. I'll chime in on this, since I've been playing guitar for about 30 years now and been intrigued and (largely ) unimpressed by most of the software amp/pre sims on offer in the past few years.

I'll preface this also with a caveat: what I'm looking for in terms of tone may not be suitable for everyone - in fact I'm very particular about getting something that sounds like a Vox AC15/30 with just enough grit when you hit the guitar hard, and not much otherwise. And I'm a die-hard telecaster fan, so plenty of bite, attack and presence are the sounds I'll typically favour.

Think "Revolver" by The Beatles - although I know George/Paul didn't use teles.

I can get some great sounds out of the latest Amplitube and Guitar Rigs, as long as I eschew most of the crazy stomp boxes/FX and just settle for the amp/pre tones. I think that GR3 may have the edge for what I look for. I've also tried Peavey's Revalver and I think it does a great - if very specific - job too.

I'm currently demoing Waves GTR solo and have found that this is -maybe - the best of the bunch in terms of useablity. The presets are just terrible, though...and it takes more fiddling around with than ATube or GR 3 to get the best tone.

I also usually record my gat miked-up through a tiny little Vox practice amp too, with just a hint of distortion - THEN apply the amp sim afterwards to fill out the sound. I use either a CAD pencil condenser mic or an AT2020 or AT4047 to record the initial audio.

I find that the smaller the amp, the better the tone you can get - at least in home studio setups where the room is usually far from ideal - and damp it down pretty heavily with duvets and acoustic foam. I also sometimes go through a RAT (original version) distortion pedal before I hit the amp.

Finally, my latest secret weapon has been the Stillwell Audio Bad Buss MOJO. An unlikely choice, but sounds great for that late 60's/early 70's thin distortion. Sounds very non-linear and unpredictable to my ears.

Like I said, guitar tone is such a matter of taste and I'll wager that 75% of players will recoil in horror at my choices, but if it's a biting, trebly sting of a sound you're after, some of the above combinations should be worth trying.

Ladle on some choice vintage compression (either hardware like Joe Meek or UAD 1176, or software like PSP Vintage Warmer or Stillwell's Rocket) and you're good to go.

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:40 pm

kristoffer1989 wrote:if you love the tube amp sound. and is going into a pa anyways i would consider getting a z.vex nanohead and a small cabinett. Then some great stompboxes and a sm57.

The nanohead is really really good. Don't get fooled by it's size!
http://zvexamps.com/amp_view.html

Nice. Thanks.

That warrants some closer attention I feel.

I'd love to mic up that internal speaker - joke or not...

12ax7heaven · Post by **12ax7heaven** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:48 pm

I'll second the vote for the Axe Fx. Also if you are looking at small tube amps you might consider one by a fellow named Stephenson called the Stage Hog. in my opinion a little more featured than the Nano and has the advantage that you can run it without a load.
cheers

http://www.stephensonamps.com/home.htm

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:13 pm

I'll tell ya that mixing real amps, usually tube, will project and sit much more powerfully in the mix. I have not heard a sim that does it for me. Although I have not heard "Eleven" I just proved that with a gtr god friend using sim stuff. While mixing his song I talked him into doing the rythms over again with my AC30 cuz he's fast. He was so blown away he re-did his leads too. It mixed like butter after that. When ya hear them side by side in yer track, you'll hear it too I bet. But, i often use sim too but I try to replce sctrtch stuff when I can.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:28 pm

I did some recording with my Fender Deluxe last night, and had it up pretty loud. It reminded me that amp software still has a way to go to fully capture the response of a tube amp.

That being said, I'm considering exclusively using Guitar Rig for live performance. I always think of a post on here a long time ago from a clarinetist (I think) who ended up running his horn through some processing, rather than dry, because people are so used to hearing studio processing on all instruments that a dry instrument can sound bad to an audience. At least that's what I got out of that.

Also, I am almost never able to turn the amp up loud enough to get the real tube tone at a live show. I'm just wondering if a better live sound could be achieved by processing every instrument to create a studio-style mix coming out of the PA, even in smaller venues.

Rambling....

kristoffer1989 · Post by **kristoffer1989** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:15 pm

evernaut wrote:
kristoffer1989 wrote:if you love the tube amp sound. and is going into a pa anyways i would consider getting a z.vex nanohead and a small cabinett. Then some great stompboxes and a sm57.

The nanohead is really really good. Don't get fooled by it's size!
http://zvexamps.com/amp_view.html

Nice. Thanks.

That warrants some closer attention I feel.

I'd love to mic up that internal speaker - joke or not...

Hehe yeah, but I mean you could use it with a 1 x12 or even 1 x 10 cabinett and get extremely good sounds out of it. Plus the thing is portable as fuck dude=)

dancerchris · Post by **dancerchris** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:16 pm

I'm still using a POD Pro in a rack with a power amp. Works great for me and the versatillity is killer. (I have the old 2 pedal floor board as well). The trick with the digital stuff is to dial in your tone. You are foolish to expect the tone for your guitar to be one of the presets. I plug in each of my guitars on the same preset and they all sound different.

My suggestion: spend a little time dialing up your tone, you do on a tube amp so why not on the digital setup. My approach is get your basic tone crafting with the model selection and eq. Then dial the drive until you get the sound you like. Remember that tone is dynamic and you should go from tame to tasty with the same setting depending on your playing dynamic.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:24 pm

it's all this shit that makes me love my acoustic.

there are rack mount tube amps.

dunno why you'd design the perfect rig around a computer, it's like making the perfect woman and picking out silicon tits, just make them perfect to begin with.

I think with some effort all of the top amp sims are workable. I hear enough good and bad about Pods and Amplitube and Guitar Rig etc from players I respect that I think part of it is just dumb luck and user experience.

I gotta read up on that little tube amp, sometimes my Pod XT has too many options, I miss having one amp with one tone (err 2 or 3 with quick flips of a switch or two.)

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:41 pm

Tone Deft wrote:it's all this shit that makes me love my acoustic.

Agree. It's my weapon of choice.

And I often put mine through the same amp/software combos as I described above as well as recording it pure. Sometimes nothing else will cut through a mix a liked an amped-up acoustic thru a crappy little speaker.

Jekblad · Post by **Jekblad** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:56 pm

this thread has been great for me.

although i'm researching everything recommended, the idea to rackmount an entire guitar system is probably the most tempting.

The appeal of the rack is to wheel it in (on a dolly), pop the ears of, grab the xlr from the back of the rack and plug it in the snake. Run AC, plug in and im ready to go.
no wiring pedalboards, no setting my wireless, no multiple trips to the car.

SO, if i could get a tiny rackmounted tube head, and RACKMOUNT a 1x12 speaker all mic'd up within the SAME rack, i'd have the same easy setup as the digital counter part (though heavier). Not sure about channel switching and fx right now...

how possible is that described scenario? as in rackmounting an entire guitar amp/rig (not just the pre/power amps but the speaker too). PS this needs to fit in a Hyundai Elantra. haha.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:43 am

Jekblad wrote:this thread has been great for me.

although i'm researching everything recommended, the idea to rackmount an entire guitar system is probably the most tempting.

The appeal of the rack is to wheel it in (on a dolly), pop the ears of, grab the xlr from the back of the rack and plug it in the snake. Run AC, plug in and im ready to go.
no wiring pedalboards, no setting my wireless, no multiple trips to the car.

SO, if i could get a tiny rackmounted tube head, and RACKMOUNT a 1x12 speaker all mic'd up within the SAME rack, i'd have the same easy setup as the digital counter part (though heavier). Not sure about channel switching and fx right now...

how possible is that described scenario? as in rackmounting an entire guitar amp/rig (not just the pre/power amps but the speaker too). PS this needs to fit in a Hyundai Elantra. haha.

a lot of guitarists will say that tone is 75% in the speaker cab. Most bands that use pods/racks for processing will still pump them into a miked up cab to get the feeling of air being moved. Weezer famously played one tour using pods straight into the PA. Some fans got upset because they couldnt see any amps on stage!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:38 am

BTW, this month's issue of Electronic Musician has a VERY interesting article where reknowned producers try and tell which is the original amp, and which is a software emulation. Worth a read if you're on the fence.

naburo · Post by **naburo** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:48 pm

I love my Fender Tube Amp and the way he sounds on Stage.

I tested Pod X3 Live in a Gig and Rehearsal situation with an active monitor,but i wasn´t really satisfied.
Sure you got more sound possibilities but something is missing.

The problem for me is how to combine things i want to loop with my guitar and pre arranged sets in ableton live with my beloved guitar sound

1. miking my amp does not satisfy me
2. Pod x3 Live is okay to get the sounds in the Laptop
but as a back line with some active monitor, oh come on
3. to split the sound: one going the tube way into my amp and the other going into virtual reality and my laptop, means you got an awful lot of work to do at the sound check

so I think i will stay with my live tube amp setup
and fulfil my looping dreams at home

cheers

btw has anyone had experiences with Pigtronix Motherlode anlog synth ?

uku · Post by **uku** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:10 pm

My first post here, hello everyone -

I strongly enjoy my minimalist Pod X3 setup. It's so simple and sounds beautiful - granted, I play squeaky clean sounds almost exclusively.

I use it for guitar and simple vocals with an SM-57 mic. New-ish Mac Pro. Latency is imperceptible to me, which is more than I can say for my brief experience with software modelling (Apple Logic only, never tried IK Multimedia products, etc.)

I connect to the Mac w/ USB. Monitor my guitar directly from the Pod, connected to Rockit-5 monitors. I also monitor all of my audio coming out of the computer through the Pod. It's cheap, and this setup allows me to get great guitar sounds quickly (yes you must create your own sounds), and most importantly - to focus on the performance.

I have an Edirol FA-66 which sounds slightly better when mixing, but not enough to write home about... a nicer D/A converter would be a worthy investment.

It is tough at first to resist the stigma that is associated with this. You're constantly thinking - "Am I a wanker hiding behind simplicity?" - but then you realize you are working with far more advanced equipment than Hendrix did.

I might be the only guitarist who doesn't care whether I use tubes or not! The Pod is simply better/cheaper/more-democratizing technology (in my opinion!)... and you can still run your favorite stompboxes in front of it.

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:21 pm

I still run all my favorite stomp boxes into the computer, too.