Hi All,
I have a Line6 Toneport UX1 which I use to record into Live7.
Can someone explain why my outputlatency in milliseconds is always twice the inputlatency?
The total latency is about 40 ms , I set the hardware buffersize to 256, any lower and there's crackles/pops.
Anyway I could improve my total latency?
Thanks,
Rene
input/output latency
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hacktheplanet
- Posts: 2846
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- Location: Chicago, IL
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Thanks for the tips. I was just wondering why there is this difference is latencies. Should'nt they be the same?
AMD64 x2 dual core 5000+, 2.6 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, Vista Home Premium
podfarmplugins about 8 instances, BFD plugin
Live running 24bit/44100
When I set the Toneport audiobuffer to 512 the inputlatency is 15 millisec, outputlatency is 30 ms.
With 256 buffer its 9 and 18 ms. With 256 buffer there are some crackles when running a 8 track set with 8 plugins.
Are these latencies as low as they can be on this system?
AMD64 x2 dual core 5000+, 2.6 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, Vista Home Premium
podfarmplugins about 8 instances, BFD plugin
Live running 24bit/44100
When I set the Toneport audiobuffer to 512 the inputlatency is 15 millisec, outputlatency is 30 ms.
With 256 buffer its 9 and 18 ms. With 256 buffer there are some crackles when running a 8 track set with 8 plugins.
Are these latencies as low as they can be on this system?
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Matthew_Nothing
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:08 am
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leedsquietman
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
- Location: greater toronto area
I would check with Line 6 about this.
If your output latency is twice the input, there must be some kind of system latency compensation buffers being added. These are optional on my Alesis IO14, if you turn them off the output latency is almost identical to the input latency, but if your system is being stressed you can add some of these compensation buffers, light adds about 5ms, medium about 10 ms and heavy about 20ms extra.
But really, I would just reduce from 256 to 384 or 512 samples uncompensated.
Run the DPC latency checker. the DPC latency checker says I don't need extra system compensation for realtime performance, but I do occasionally put it onto light.
WIth your system, which is quite powerful, you should really be able to get your syste, to run an audio card at 256 samples without problems (depending on plugins and track load). I don't know if you're freezing tracks, or being careful not to run plugins which induce latency, (reverbs and multiband compressors being particularly guilty) - for example, if you have a plugin turned on while tracking which adds 1,024 samples, the system will compensate for that by delaying EVERYTHING by that amount. The largest latency is what everything is matched to.
I always try and plan my recording so I record everything dry first, and only then add FX at the end, wherever possible to avoid this.
If your output latency is twice the input, there must be some kind of system latency compensation buffers being added. These are optional on my Alesis IO14, if you turn them off the output latency is almost identical to the input latency, but if your system is being stressed you can add some of these compensation buffers, light adds about 5ms, medium about 10 ms and heavy about 20ms extra.
But really, I would just reduce from 256 to 384 or 512 samples uncompensated.
Run the DPC latency checker. the DPC latency checker says I don't need extra system compensation for realtime performance, but I do occasionally put it onto light.
WIth your system, which is quite powerful, you should really be able to get your syste, to run an audio card at 256 samples without problems (depending on plugins and track load). I don't know if you're freezing tracks, or being careful not to run plugins which induce latency, (reverbs and multiband compressors being particularly guilty) - for example, if you have a plugin turned on while tracking which adds 1,024 samples, the system will compensate for that by delaying EVERYTHING by that amount. The largest latency is what everything is matched to.
I always try and plan my recording so I record everything dry first, and only then add FX at the end, wherever possible to avoid this.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.
Thanks for the replies, I ran dpc checker and it shows occasional 100µs peaks, the averages are about 30µs. Is this good?
I run about 8 podfarmplugins with reverbs and compressors normally and I'm wondering if the delaycompensation in Live could be the cause of added latency, I'll check this later, also with higher samplerate.
Another thing that improves performance is setting Live's processorpriority to "realtime" in the taskmanager, however it returns to "normal" after rebooting.
I run about 8 podfarmplugins with reverbs and compressors normally and I'm wondering if the delaycompensation in Live could be the cause of added latency, I'll check this later, also with higher samplerate.
Another thing that improves performance is setting Live's processorpriority to "realtime" in the taskmanager, however it returns to "normal" after rebooting.
I can increase the samplerate to 48000 without dropouts, latency drops a bit but not much.
Removing all plugins from a set doesn't change anything.
Still outputlatency is twice the inputlatency!!
DPC checker says my system is useable for realtime streaming audio but it shows regular spikes (see below).
but stranger things are happening: my processors show a very regular 15 sec interval spike when Line6-Podfarmstandalone is open (no other applications active). One core is more affected then the other.
Lowering the buffersize of the Toneport increases the height of the spikes.
DPC checker shows latency spikes (1000µs) at the same timeinterval.
Closing the podfarm application makes the spikes go away.
Removing all gear from podfarm has no effect.
All unused hardware is disabled: internal soundcard and networkcard, wireless networkcard.
Any suggestions are very welcome.
(Vista, dualcore 2.6 Ghz, 2Gb RAM) [/img]
Removing all plugins from a set doesn't change anything.
Still outputlatency is twice the inputlatency!!
DPC checker says my system is useable for realtime streaming audio but it shows regular spikes (see below).
but stranger things are happening: my processors show a very regular 15 sec interval spike when Line6-Podfarmstandalone is open (no other applications active). One core is more affected then the other.
Lowering the buffersize of the Toneport increases the height of the spikes.
DPC checker shows latency spikes (1000µs) at the same timeinterval.
Closing the podfarm application makes the spikes go away.
Removing all gear from podfarm has no effect.
All unused hardware is disabled: internal soundcard and networkcard, wireless networkcard.
Any suggestions are very welcome.
(Vista, dualcore 2.6 Ghz, 2Gb RAM) [/img]
Re: input/output latency
Disable your graphic's card accelaration...
Right Click on desktop-}Properties-}Settings-}Advanced-}Troubleshoot
Right Click on desktop-}Properties-}Settings-}Advanced-}Troubleshoot
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leedsquietman
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
- Location: greater toronto area
Re: input/output latency
graphic card acceleration is one of the most problematic things for overall system latency.
Vista doesn't help either - I have yet to see a Vista system run in a really low DPC count. Your DPC count is actually pretty good compared to many Vista machines. Finely tuned XP machines can run very low DPC scores and never spike into yellow or red. My ageing getting on for 5 years old P4 laptop with a single core 3.2 Ghz processor and 2GB ram has NEVER ran a yellow or red spike on the DPC checker under win XP when wifi and background programs were turned off (or even come close).
Do you have the most updated graphics card and toneport interface drivers ? Check online.
DO you have any IRQ conflicts, i.e. things sharing the same channel, perhaps other things are hogging the USB buss without you knowing.
Try using direct monitoring (if your toneport interface has this) and apply effects afterwards.
In terms of plugins - record everything raw first, and then when you're done tracking, you can start to add the plugins. You can also up the latency so your CPU isn't in thermal meltdown at this time. If you record with plugins on, any that add system latency will be compensated for in Live, for example, PSP Vintage Warmer (and many other compressors) adds latency, and the total in/out latency is only going to be as low as your weakest link (i.e. the plugin). One fellow here took Vintage Warmer off and low and behold, he could then manage the low latencies that were crackling and overloading before.
You can set the latency down to 512 or 1,024 samples no problems on mixdown.
Finally, have you ever tried a different interface - the Toneport (and some other USB interfaces) are not known for having stellar drivers or being capable of recording very low latencies, even on uber powerful machines.
Vista doesn't help either - I have yet to see a Vista system run in a really low DPC count. Your DPC count is actually pretty good compared to many Vista machines. Finely tuned XP machines can run very low DPC scores and never spike into yellow or red. My ageing getting on for 5 years old P4 laptop with a single core 3.2 Ghz processor and 2GB ram has NEVER ran a yellow or red spike on the DPC checker under win XP when wifi and background programs were turned off (or even come close).
Do you have the most updated graphics card and toneport interface drivers ? Check online.
DO you have any IRQ conflicts, i.e. things sharing the same channel, perhaps other things are hogging the USB buss without you knowing.
Try using direct monitoring (if your toneport interface has this) and apply effects afterwards.
In terms of plugins - record everything raw first, and then when you're done tracking, you can start to add the plugins. You can also up the latency so your CPU isn't in thermal meltdown at this time. If you record with plugins on, any that add system latency will be compensated for in Live, for example, PSP Vintage Warmer (and many other compressors) adds latency, and the total in/out latency is only going to be as low as your weakest link (i.e. the plugin). One fellow here took Vintage Warmer off and low and behold, he could then manage the low latencies that were crackling and overloading before.
You can set the latency down to 512 or 1,024 samples no problems on mixdown.
Finally, have you ever tried a different interface - the Toneport (and some other USB interfaces) are not known for having stellar drivers or being capable of recording very low latencies, even on uber powerful machines.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.
Re: input/output latency
Does graphic accelaration really make that much of a difference? I'm running at about 8ms but I'd to take it down so I can crank up my cache.
Re: input/output latency
I run all my projects in 24bit 96Khz and buffer size to 256...
CPU never got above 60%
When i try to use for example my sends and use the mouse i can hear some crackling goin on..
But when i disable graphic card acceleration the thing is flawless...
Same thing with the shitty Pentium III that i use at my work..
On board sound card(with ASIO4ALL installed) and i go down to 256 bufferzz 24bit 48Khz
CPU never got above 60%
When i try to use for example my sends and use the mouse i can hear some crackling goin on..
But when i disable graphic card acceleration the thing is flawless...
Same thing with the shitty Pentium III that i use at my work..
On board sound card(with ASIO4ALL installed) and i go down to 256 bufferzz 24bit 48Khz