Do you prefere Live suite instruments or 3rd Party VST's?

Nick the Zombie · Post by **Nick the Zombie** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:19 pm

I stick with the Suite instruments because I spent too many years looking for third party plugs to the point where it became an excuse not to write music. That's my weakness, and plenty of people are stronger than me in that respect. Those people will know when to call it quits on the third party plug search and stick with what really does it for them.

A nice side product of this self-imposed limitation is that I've gotten good enough with the Suite instruments that I can make any sound I want, so there's really no point in spending time looking for more tools when the ones I've got do the trick and then some. Also, I just like the Ableton interfaces a lot. Sampler and Operator are desert island for me.

andrewbrewer · Post by **andrewbrewer** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:22 pm

forgot to mention, there are some freebies that i like.

VOPM - a very cheap FM-sound that is, believe it or not, kind of hard for operator to achieve.

Chip32 & magical 8bit plug-in - amazing nintendo/sid trash

i would like to use dblue glitch more often but it crashes ...

djpowder1200 · Post by **djpowder1200** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:39 pm

i just got omnispere, and i've gotta admit, i'm a little let down. don't get me wrong, it's a nice synth, but it's a cpu hog, and the sounds aren't any better than atmosphere or albino 3, in my opinion. plus it runs way heavier than either of 'em. then again, as i said, i just got it, so i'm sure i'll find more as i dig into it a little deeper....
as far as live's instruments go, of course operator is great, sampler is the only sampler i use, i traded in my lounge lizard for electric, and the drumrack is effin' amazing. i still use groove agent, but only as a trigger for drumrack.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:20 am

Machines has a point - if you do use more than one DAW regularly, VSTS give you that transferability that inbuilt plugs do not. This is probably why I love my softsynths and also plugins like Sonalksis's Essentials compressor and EQ because they are not only high quality but I can just fire them up in any application I use (Cubase, Live, SOundforge or Vegas at home)

However, I also like the integration of the Live Suite and I am using Live more exclusively than ever these days. Looking forward very much to Live 8.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:29 am

Lives Synths+outboard....(though I want to get Absynth back...)

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:35 am

tried them all but aside operator they have no value. to be honest its such a shame to have them on the pc that i bought live 7, cause all the pirated stuff out there is the suite version with all these awful toys. i don´t want to see them in my reach.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:06 pm

feel her fountain...

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:59 pm

I bought Zebra2 at some point even being a Live Boxed Suite user.
Recently I have re-discovered analog and with the L8 beta I found out
how operator has improved. Zebra2 is a good VST but IMHO, too complex
to deal with when creating sounds from scratch. I use it mainly with the free libraries
and I tweak something here and there, while with suite instruments I can create a sound in analog & operator. So, when the suite will come with the new Sound Library I'll see. I'm a Zebra fan, the Prophet Free Library is something I use a lot and I wasn't able to reproduce that sound in Live Instruments.

- Best
- Pasha

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:59 pm

Double post.... ouch!

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:14 pm

Pasha wrote:I bought Zebra2 at some point even being a Live Boxed Suite user.
Recently I have re-discovered analog and with the L8 beta I found out
how operator has improved. Zebra2 is a good VST but IMHO, too complex
to deal with when creating sounds from scratch. I use it mainly with the free libraries
and I tweak something here and there, while with suite instruments I can create a sound in analog & operator. So, when the suite will come with the new Sound Library I'll see. I'm a Zebra fan, the Prophet Free Library is something I use a lot and I wasn't able to reproduce that sound in Live Instruments.

- Best
- Pasha

What's the prophet free library?

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:39 pm

Pasha wrote:Zebra2 is a good VST but IMHO, too complex
to deal with when creating sounds from scratch.

yeah its no real fun using it from scratch. did you try the stripped down sister called "zebralette"? it has limitations making more complex modulations impossible, but on the other hand its very accessible and uses the same sound engine.

btw its a mystery why ableton dares to release so many crappy "sounding" "synths" while there are some real pearls like zebra and imposcar on the market. especially since operator was a very promising start in that section. it doesn´t need so much programming a filter like a filter (smooth and sound enhancing) and not like a brutal destructor. ok cpu hogging may be an issue if you don´t take the time/brain/maths to optimize your code... but thats more a bad excuse than a good reason.

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:03 pm

tempus3r wrote:
It has a few cool unique features but the fact that you can't even midi/macro map sample start (but can in simpler!) drives me crazy.

indeed. how they took this decision way beyond my imagination.

SinisterMinister · Post by **SinisterMinister** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:50 pm

I cant speak for the newest version of operator but i used to have the old operator from live 6. I spent soooo much time trying to find the right sounds and thinking that it was just me that sucked because I couldnt get the right sounds but once i got ahold of a few ridiculously amazing VSTs (Blue, Predator, minimoog vst) I found out operator is a joke.

It may be ok for people who just use synths as a backround in their music but in the style I produce (house, electro) using vst's is vital to getting a professional sound. I now look back fondly and innocently on my days of using operator, no offense to the developers of it but IMO it cannot touch Rob Papen's synths with a 10 ft pole.

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:01 pm

SinisterMinister wrote:I cant speak for the newest version of operator but i used to have the old operator from live 6. I spent soooo much time trying to find the right sounds and thinking that it was just me that sucked because I couldnt get the right sounds but once i got ahold of a few ridiculously amazing VSTs (Blue, Predator, minimoog vst) I found out operator is a joke.

It may be ok for people who just use synths as a backround in their music but in the style I produce (house, electro) using vst's is vital to getting a professional sound. I now look back fondly and innocently on my days of using operator, no offense to the developers of it but IMO it cannot touch Rob Papen's synths with a 10 ft pole.

because those synths have all the usual doodads connected to them aswell. builtin reverbs, delays, silly trancegates and whatnots. operator does not. operators isnt all that exciting until you rack it up with the rest of the live devices. then it gets interesting.

very interesting, at that.

SinisterMinister · Post by **SinisterMinister** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:32 pm

friend_kami wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:I cant speak for the newest version of operator but i used to have the old operator from live 6. I spent soooo much time trying to find the right sounds and thinking that it was just me that sucked because I couldnt get the right sounds but once i got ahold of a few ridiculously amazing VSTs (Blue, Predator, minimoog vst) I found out operator is a joke.

It may be ok for people who just use synths as a backround in their music but in the style I produce (house, electro) using vst's is vital to getting a professional sound. I now look back fondly and innocently on my days of using operator, no offense to the developers of it but IMO it cannot touch Rob Papen's synths with a 10 ft pole.
because those synths have all the usual doodads connected to them aswell. builtin reverbs, delays, silly trancegates and whatnots. operator does not. operators isnt all that exciting until you rack it up with the rest of the live devices. then it gets interesting.

very interesting, at that.

Actually im just talking without even any effects, i use the synths built in effects sparingly because i like having more control outside of it. All I can say is that after using other vst's operator's quality is glaringly lower in quality and what it offers. Again this is not coming from someone who has never used operator- I have used it. I would not even pay $50 for it, there are freeware synths that are just as good or better than OP.