Melodies

[nebulae]

^ when you say "bloops" it makes me so h...

[WaveRider]

I'll get into a tech song with bleeps and noises, but after the novelty wears off, if there is nothing emotionally to tie me to the music, I won't care for it.

yeah I get to those DJ sets, it is good for the 1st 15 min. after that I get bored. The whole night is going without any melody.... then someone slips a Stevie Wonder hit and it is like rain after drought

..but on the other hand when composing it is hard not to sound cheesy.... I agree that incidental/very subtle is the new game.... but back to early electro there were strong melodies... I am going back there nowadays...

[nebulae]

^ nothing wrong with going back there...I've been listening to Erasure again...and there's a new Pet Shop Boys coming out...nothing but strong melodic stuff there, and (apart from the amazingly gayness of it) it ain't cheezy to me at all.

I've also heard a lot of more recent stuff that grounds itself in strong melodic hooks, which is great.

[six_o_clock_crow]

"Music is an art form whose medium is sound organized in time."

Wikipedia isn't always the best resource, but for me this opening line from the page on 'music' pretty much sums up my own definition of the term.

My own 'music' doesn't always contain melody. Often, I'll use found sounds as beats and mix this with the field recordings from which those found sound 'hits' are taken. And that's it, besides a liberal sprinkling of effects I am sure some people wouldn't classify this as 'music' but it is to me. It certainly fits the above definition, but then again the interpretation of the term 'music' is what makes it so much fun: there can never be one, universally accepted definition.

I do use a number of rudimentary instruments/toys to add 'melody' where I feel it enhances a track. And I do want a modular synth for adding further sounds to my tracks. But I am quite happy listening to 'music' that has an abscence of melody. For example, a good deal of Autechre's recent work lacks melody... but somehow the tone of the beats and the rhythms have as much of an emotional impact on me as any melodic piece of music. Indeed, with selective processing, beats themsleves can give the impression of a melody (Live's 'resonator' effect is great for this.)

A recurring 'pub debate' I have with friends is that I refuse to accept that 'music' has to contain certain, agreed elements. I know certain styles of music are built on the inclusion of specific instrumental parts. I would argue that there is no need to include - for example - a bass line in every track you write.

But this is all subjective. There is no right or wrong answer, I would say.

Apologies to the OP for taking this discussion a bit OT

Back OT... I would agree with a point made earlier: usually, it's the sound selection that is the problem when something sounds cliched. Listen to the sounds being used in the current tracks of the genre you are writing in, and try to emulate them, but give them your own twist.

What type of elctronic music are you writing? I have to say I find that an electric piano type sound tends to work in most electronica tracks: soft and chorus-y for minimal/mellow styles; overdriven slightly for harder sounding tracks. Somehow, I always find it fits in. It sounds classic, without sounding cheesy.

[Nick the Zombie]

Back OT... I would agree with a point made earlier: usually, it's the sound selection that is the problem when something sounds cliched. Listen to the sounds being used in the current tracks of the genre you are writing in, and try to emulate them, but give them your own twist.

So true. It's easy to forget the fact that a simple change of timbre is all that is needed to transform a "bad" melody into a "good" one. This is one of many reasons why sound design fascinates me so much. For example, the idea that a really tired pentatonic progression can go from bland to really interesting just by changing from a guitar sound to your own instrument design is powerful knowledge to have.

- Nick

[nebulae]

"Music is an art form whose medium is sound organized in time."

I don't disagree...music is anything that you think is music...just like any noise can be musical to you. Examples would be some artist who said he got into minimal ambient by droning out to his washer washing his clothes; or the brilliant/moronic 4'33" by John Cage (laughing all the way to the bank on that one).

I think the point of this thread is not what is music, but rather what is musical. And to most people on the planet, something with melody tends to be more musical because it incites some emotion. Now don't get me wrong - I've sat in African drum circles for hours, entranced on the pounding beats, and it is easily arguable that there is lots of emotion coming out of tribal rhythms. But I think the gist of this thread is that going back to chords and melodic hooks isn't necessarily a bad thing for modern tech.

[Aequitas123]

Apologies to the OP for taking this discussion a bit OT

I encourage debate!



I completely agree that music should have no set definition. But, to bring back my original point, how is melody used in a genre that so often lacks. I think the above points that percussion can bring about an implied melody is interesting.

One thing i struggle with is "riffs". In rock-based music riffs can be quite long and i find when trying to use long or complicated melodies in electronic/dance music it comes across as cheesy. Listening to some artists i find more shorter melodies.

[JoshR]

Some zappa quotes:

""The most important thing in art is The Frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively-- because, without this humble appliance, you can't know where The Art stops and The Real World begins. You have to put a 'box' around it because otherwise, what is that shit on the wall?"

"Most people wouldn't know music if it came up and bit them on the ass."

"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."

"Music is always a commentary on society."

"No change in musical style will survive unless it is accompanied by a change in clothing style. Rock is to dress up to."

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."

"Music is the only religion that delivers the goods."

[Geezus]

There is SOOOO much "musical" electronic music out there, you are just looking in the all wrong places.

Clifford gilberto rhythm combination (#1 fav)
Flanger (prolly 2nd runner up)
The Flashbulb
Squarepusher
Bonobo (amazing)
Nightmares on Wax
De-Phazz
Amon Tobin
Tycho
Some telefon Tel Aviv
Kilowatts
Ganucheau (find his memekast mix)
Wisp (tons of his older stuff free: http://www.wisp.kaen.org/ might want to look into his newer stuff though)


and the list goes on and on and on. Its still MUSIC, so yes there are plenty of artists out there who still use strong melodies.

[ChiDJ]

I'll accept the Wiki definition and those other's posted...However,


A song is not song without melody. So...

do you write music? or songs?

Are you a looper? or a song writer?

Have you ever said, "hey bro, I really like that new %$#@-punk record! You know, the one goes, "Boom, chika, bleep beep, boom?"

[andydes]

I'll accept the Wiki definition and those other's posted...However,


A song is not song without melody. So...

do you write music? or songs?

Are you a looper? or a song writer?

Have you ever said, "hey bro, I really like that new %$#@-punk record! You know, the one goes, "Boom, chika, bleep beep, boom?"

Are you using Daft Punk as an example of music without a distinctive melody? Interesting, as I bet almost everyone on this forum could whistle at least 5 of their tracks.

[nebulae]

^ but that's not a fair comparison...daft punk is french neo-disco; we're talking about minimal tech a la Kompakt from Berlin.

[8O]

^ Kompakt from Cologne.

/pedant

[Lux Libra]

^ Kompakt from Cologne.

/pedant

m'er lasse de dom in kölle !

[nebulae]

wherever the fuck they're from, I think you get my fucking point