If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:57 am

You say that you want to avoid hassle of asking other people to do stuff. Trust me, you will not avoid hassle this way.
If you wanted to fly to another country would you learn how to fly ? Or would you just buy a ticket and go.

I would go the method that a few forum users here used. Nebulae, for instance , has a Wordpress based system that seems to suit him just fine.

You get a nice modern well-supported content management system for free, and there's a ton of people making add-ons for it all the time. Styles, etc.
If it fucks up you can contact someone/anyone and say "hey my wordpress theme is broken" and they will know exactly what you mean, what is involved and probably even be able to help you.

If you make your own site you don't even know what you don't know.
There is a ton of mistakes you would make that really aren't worth the time. I mean really a metric ton.
EG: What doctype are you going to use, strict, loose, transitional HTML? or are you going for XML and XSLT What are the benefits and pitfalls of each of those? How do you validate it, why would you validate it. Streaming audio? how?
Are you going to learn PHP, a language written by a team of monkeys, just so you can alter one tiny facet of that templating system which doesn't work right.How about learning Javascript just so you can then un-learn it enough to deal with Mootools for your fancy image gallery, which wont work, and that particular bit that means you have to use Prototype and Rico? So now your pages have 25 linked documents and you find out the load is about 800k . Now you have a one of a kind system that only you can fix, so who do you ask for help?
are you getting the picture yet?

Can of worms

Honestly - get some hosting with PHP and MySQL and install wordpress, save yourself some hell.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:00 am

I was actually going to suggest something similar, but was thinking more along the lines of Drupal.

ashtonron · Post by **ashtonron** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:04 am

Start with learning HTML/CSS and go from there..

It is a long path of discovery that is constantly changing...

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:36 am

Do you want to design websites or do you want to build them... 2 very different paths!

Ball Sack · Post by **Ball Sack** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:58 am

Google. Where everything starts.

barstu · Post by **barstu** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:21 pm

Yeah I agree with jeskola, sites are designed in Photoshop and built in code editors like Dreamweaver.

Also agree with Angstrom, it doesn't leave many active brain cells at the end of the day to fire up Ableton.

'CSS Mastery' is a good book I'm told.

radiofreeken1 · Post by **radiofreeken1** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:41 pm

Hey -- Just wanted to say thanks to all here. As an older dude who's a freelance writer/ designer/ marketing consultant (most of my portfolio is print)I've just started to build my web skills for the sake of self-reliance and I have to admit I'm a bit overwhelmed. It seems like the realms that you can dabble in and experiment in are friggin' endless! Feels kind of like standing out in the backyard, looking up at the stars and saying: "Now I'm going to become an expert on outer space."

The dire warnings about the treadmill of constant learning were useful to hear too. I have always assumed that my curiosity and tendency to want tinker were desirable traits. But as I begin to dabble with these technologies I realize that it's possible to lose entire workdays to activies that contribute NOTHING to paying my mortgage and putting clothes on my child's back. I can be such a sucker for an interesting puzzle! And truth be told I'm not wired to ever be a productive programmer. I know the brain-type (I'm married to one) -- That's not my strong suit. The cold hard fact of it: If I want to toil away at something that provides non-monetary rewards, I'd MUCH rather it be making music.

So I'm going to run with this idea about Wordpress -- research it a little more and see if I can usefully make it my "boundary" -- in other words, in terms of the service I offer -- like, if you can build it in Wordpress, then I can do it for you. If not, I pass or bring someone else into it.

Just wanted all who contributed to the conversation that they helped. Thanks.

Ken

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:30 pm

Angstrom wrote:want to learn web design?
Here's my advice - don't!

Reason 1
because you make music on computers, you chat with your friends on computers, you pay your bills on computers, you shop on computers. So you really want to work on computers too?

I am a web designer, have been for many years. When I get busy with work I am doing 8 hours a day staring at a screen, then I spend another 4 hours on a computer making music.

Argh.

Reason 2
Every single day in web development I am learning something new. Unfortunately that is actually a minus point because there is built in obsolescence in the industry. It's like learning the very latest way to make cartwheels, or steam engines. Except the technological redundancy cycle is a thousand times faster. EG: No client asks me for VRML these days (!), likewise my "award winning flash skills" have been dead in the water since about 2002.
Imagine taking a 5 year break from webdesign and try to come back. You pretty much have to start again, because what was important a few years back is now not.

If your learned something less transient, like say ... structural engineering, or geology, that knowledge you learn is always transferable into new techniques and technologies and it stays valuable. 50 years or a hundred years from now it will be valuable to know how to calculate a load bearing beam, etc.
But If you learn something in Web Development you can pretty much guarantee it will be totally worthless in ten years.

reason 3
because it takes a lot of learning to just stay current (to try out new faddish techniques and to evaluate their actual worth) this means the part of your brain that can do that will be used up. Do you want to spend 20% of your week trying out new security measures for SQL injections on Logins ... or do you want to spend that 20% of your week making stupid sounds?

I could go on and on about this, I have at least 5 more reasons. But we are into tl;dr; territory now.

Advice - get a dumb assed job that pays OK and doesn't change much!
leave plenty of time for music

Brilliant!

And you will spend 16 hours a day staring at a computer for the first 4 to 6 years while you are learning.

Hidden Driveways · Post by **Hidden Driveways** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:26 pm

Another thing... my friend Bob studied hard a number of years ago and made the transition from graphic designer to web site builder guy. He did it somewhat freelance for a number of years and recently got out of it. The thing that drove him crazy (along with everything else mentioned here) was that the sites he created for people were like "babies." He would take on a client, submit to all of their demands and build the site they wanted. But the job doesn't end there. The baby would be born, but it would constantly need parenting. The phone would ring at any given time and a client from a few years ago would declare "The blah-blah-blah isn't working on the site anymore!" It annoyed him so much that he left the field.

john doe by choice · Post by **john doe by choice** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:39 pm

I'm a Mac user, so I use Rapidweaver, super easy and to the point. I also spent a few years at an Art Institute (before transferring to a University that really had what I needed) and I learned how to produce content (videography, editing, soundtrack, etc) and make it web ready, which is far more important than learning to build sites. I mean, if you have a killer site and shitty/no content, you have worked hard for nothing. Once you have a shit-ton of content that you are happy with/is representative of what you do, then worry about making a site...like Angstrom said, between now and the time you are finished with content you want to publish, you could have a ton of learning to catch up on, just in the simple stuff.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:06 pm

Hidden Driveways wrote:Another thing... my friend Bob studied hard a number of years ago and made the transition from graphic designer to web site builder guy. He did it somewhat freelance for a number of years and recently got out of it. The thing that drove him crazy (along with everything else mentioned here) was that the sites he created for people were like "babies." He would take on a client, submit to all of their demands and build the site they wanted. But the job doesn't end there. The baby would be born, but it would constantly need parenting. The phone would ring at any given time and a client from a few years ago would declare "The blah-blah-blah isn't working on the site anymore!" It annoyed him so much that he left the field.

This needs to be handled through the initial contract. If not it turns into a nightmare.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:09 pm

Angstrom wrote:You say that you want to avoid hassle of asking other people to do stuff. Trust me, you will not avoid hassle this way.
If you wanted to fly to another country would you learn how to fly ? Or would you just buy a ticket and go.

I would go the method that a few forum users here used. Nebulae, for instance , has a Wordpress based system that seems to suit him just fine.

You get a nice modern well-supported content management system for free, and there's a ton of people making add-ons for it all the time. Styles, etc.
If it fucks up you can contact someone/anyone and say "hey my wordpress theme is broken" and they will know exactly what you mean, what is involved and probably even be able to help you.

If you make your own site you don't even know what you don't know.
There is a ton of mistakes you would make that really aren't worth the time. I mean really a metric ton.
EG: What doctype are you going to use, strict, loose, transitional HTML? or are you going for XML and XSLT What are the benefits and pitfalls of each of those? How do you validate it, why would you validate it. Streaming audio? how?
Are you going to learn PHP, a language written by a team of monkeys, just so you can alter one tiny facet of that templating system which doesn't work right.How about learning Javascript just so you can then un-learn it enough to deal with Mootools for your fancy image gallery, which wont work, and that particular bit that means you have to use Prototype and Rico? So now your pages have 25 linked documents and you find out the load is about 800k . Now you have a one of a kind system that only you can fix, so who do you ask for help?
are you getting the picture yet?

Can of worms

Honestly - get some hosting with PHP and MySQL and install wordpress, save yourself some hell.

Again Brilliant! I think I will head over to your site and buy some tracks for further study of this phenomenon.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:43 pm

Moody wrote: I think I will head over to your site and buy some tracks for further study of this phenomenon.

heh, notice that my own website is a complete shambles with no shop section!

I think this is an occupational hazzard, after spending all day making websites the last thing I want to do is make a website. Oddly my brother is a builder and lives in a caravan (US: trailer-trash)

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:32 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Moody wrote: I think I will head over to your site and buy some tracks for further study of this phenomenon.
heh, notice that my own website is a complete shambles with no shop section!

I think this is an occupational hazzard, after spending all day making websites the last thing I want to do is make a website. Oddly my brother is a builder and lives in a caravan (US: trailer-trash)

I completely understand. i am in the exact same situation as you.

ashtonron · Post by **ashtonron** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:56 am

If you want to do design learn about HCI (human computer interaction), how can you translate a business requirement into something that works for the user and looks great at the same time, and become great with your chosen graphics tools and let a nerd like me get it to work.

Other alternative is to use something like drupal..

If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

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Re: If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

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Re: If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

Re: If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

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Re: If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

Re: If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

Re: If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

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