[OT] Eckhart Tolle

[nowtime]

He DOES recognize and acknowledge the part that "active thinking and imaginiation" plays. You use that part of your brain for planning, for math, for getting to work on time. It is a valid part of the mind of course. This does not mean you become a vegetable. But you practice quieting the thoughts that take you away from what is now, what is real , what is here. This is not rocket science. It is now new.

[gjm]

Yeah - you're right; I DO need to face the truth. He IS just another Wayne Dyer. I've been preyed upon. And there is no cliff - humanity is doing just fine. Thanks for saving me from this "now" bullshit. 'preciate it!

You never answered my earlier questions.

What do you mean by 'Wake up?' Wake up from what? And how did we get there in the first place.

What is this 'Cliff'? Where is it? What is the result when everybody falls off of it?

Who is 'All?' Does it include all races and religions, including the ones who have not heard about the cliff?

EDIT: Don't answer this. Its irrelevant to the thread.

[FORMAT]

You need to separate the present moment from your perception of the present moment. The present moment simply is.

This is one thing I am unable to do. The present moment is not a thing... its nothing. Its as undefinable as how small is small, or how big is big. Nobody can separate their perception away from themselves, the best they can do is modify it.

Now I say this fully understanding that it is my perception of the situation. I am either enlightened enough to perceive correctly my position in this soup, or not. If not, I welcome an external prompt to alter my core being.

Saying that the 'Present moment simply is' IMO basically equates to a catch all phrase, similar to those used in lots of religions or philosophies where the thought process has come to a halt. These stances are often adopted by people rather than arrived at logically. (Obviously I have no idea how you arrived at it). Again IMO, the clarification should be about how you 'frame' any moment of your life. Its always your choice to work within your uniqueness. A simple example is the glass that is either half full or half empty.

Starting or finishing tracks, or even the concepts of creativity or inspiration is ALWAYS about managing your perceptions. Likes and dislikes, or generally the judgements any one person makes about their own work including decisions of motivating ones self all come from within a person. Its been my observation that those who are successful at things are those who can allow themselves to fully function or 'Be' in the many moments that make up their lives. Uncompleted tasks are often the result of not being able to deal with the thoughts and feelings created by being in the moment. Its not about switching off or resting. The OP correctly concluded that you would not get anything done. Its about being fully engaged in whatever is in the moment with you, so that you can continue the never ending cycle of perceptual modification.

Sorry for the Rant.

Some very good thoughts there, gjm.
Sums up my problems with putting "Power of Now" to use in everyday life.

[gjm]

He DOES recognize and acknowledge the part that "active thinking and imaginiation" plays. You use that part of your brain for planning, for math, for getting to work on time. It is a valid part of the mind of course. This does not mean you become a vegetable. But you practice quieting the thoughts that take you away from what is now, what is real , what is here. This is not rocket science. It is now new.

IMO, the words 'Now, Real and Here' are all perceptions I create in my mind when encountering mostly physical and external forces. I make judgements that then cloak my 'View' in those moments. My brain was fully and actively engaged in creating the quality of my experience. Reality is what you actively decide to make it. Its not about quieting certain thoughts or using a different part of your brain, its simply using ALL of your brain to control the sequence of perceptions you make that quantify the situation you find yourself in.

Let me give you an example. Last thursday my 7 year old son went missing for 2 1/2 hrs. He was meant to be at an after school program, but when my wife went to pick him up, the program organizer said "he never came, and went home with someone else." We quickly phoned around and he was with none of our family friends. No teacher had seen him, no evidence of his where abouts. (This was highly unusual and completely out of character for my son and any of our friends). After the event, I talked with my wife about what went on in her mind as she processed the information at hand. Her 'NOW' among other things involved the knowledge of a possible sexual predator that had been recently haunting the school and the local mall. Her reality when faced with her missing child was created by her using her brain and the information she had at hand. A process of selecting thoughts took place that impacted her mind and body. She was totally and fully engaged in the small moments making up her experience. Many things went through her head, including the fact that 2 1/2 hours was enough time for my son to now be 200 miles away.

There was in fact a piece of information she and I were missing, that my son was chilling out at the back of the school behind a new play ground. Without this piece of information, the reality we both experienced can clearly be seen as a perception. It didn't make it any less real to the both of us. I had called the police and sent my oldest son to search the storm culvert that runs along side the park he would pass through if he had tried to walk home. (I had recalled to mind a friend who lost his own 6 yr old son to drowning in a small creek while playing).

This is a good example of how my brain was fully engaged in creating the quality of my experience. It is exactly the same process that goes on for much more mundane stuff, like dealing with rainy days when I have to carry my drum kit across parking lots when I can't park close enough to the building, or motivating myself to mow the lawn, or settle an argument between siblings. IMO, its all about the choice of thoughts, recognizing the validity of whatever information you have at hand and how that impacts your state of mind. Narrowing down your field of vision to very small slices of life blocks off so much of the necessary information that is needed to create your personal perception of any given situation as accurately as you can.

If I start to slice my life up into tiny moments represented by the concept of 'Now', I restrict the food that is necessary for my brain to create quality moments. It is my opinion that the brain is not made to function at its best with little to no thought. It thrives on activity. Instead of fighting to reduce thoughts, I promote actively choosing as many thoughts as you can to shape your perception of any given moment. This includes filtering as much of my past experience and predicting as much of my future as possible.

This then begs the question about the ability to replace thought systems, or at least redirect the path taken in thought to create your current experience. Again, this involves AS MUCH participation as you can possibly muster, not a limiting of brain activity. Choosing to choose your perceptions, or actively creating them while continually altering them as feedback arrives I find to be the most rewarding way to live. In the end it is all personal, and if you find something that works for you then you are in a good place. My POV is just that, it works for me. I do not expect anyone to adopt my practices. I have just been sharing a bit of my journey. Take it for what it is, just one persons perception.

[BongoBennie]

WOW, thats a lot of "I's" and "MY's" in all of this, From what I gather listening to Mr. Tolle, He isn't preaching "his way", most of what he says is quoted from different sources.... If he doesn't float your boat, thats cool, but the title of the thread is Eckhart Tolle, so if you really don't like him, don't waste your time brotha.

[gjm]

WOW, thats a lot of "I's" and "MY's" in all of this, From what I gather listening to Mr. Tolle, He isn't preaching "his way", most of what he says is quoted from different sources.... If he doesn't float your boat, thats cool, but the title of the thread is Eckhart Tolle, so if you really don't like him, don't waste your time brotha.

Of course there is a lot of I's and My's. I am talking about how I practice what I profess. First hand experience. It would be very uncool to dis someone's system without having first given their prescription or versions thereof a good go. I also did not say I did not like him. I have never met him. I originally got involved in this thread as a response to a comment made by rbro about how the present moment just 'Is.' So its perfectly OK to be here in this thread. In actual fact, I fully invite any followers of Tolle or his general flavor to pull me up and set me straight. I stated how I could not actually do what rbro said because of a flaw I see in this type of reasoning. View this as either my limitation (more steps to climb on the path of enlightenment) or a valid counter to someones claims. Either way, Tolle himself does not need defending. His work though fully deserves honest scrutiny before swollwing it hook line and sinker. In fact, the OP started the thread to question Tolle's teaching.

So, walking out on a limb I have exposed my thoughts about it, and found that so far there has been not one single response to my comments that proceed to help me understand better either my inadiquite views or someone else's perfect set of ducks all in a row. So, I ask again, help me understand where I am wrong, or where any of my comments are not correct regarding the subject, where I need to alter my perception so as to increase my quota of joy, and I will listen. Tell me how you follow through on Tolle's teachings and have found them to be 100% AOK. Or, have you a modified version. Do you actually actively and regularly practice his teachings? I have no problem with someone presenting information that puts me in my place.

[BongoBennie]

Honestly man, I can only read about 1/10th of all this, I can only say that Tolle's work has made a profound difference in my life, and this thread was just a bit much, I have never seen a Tolle thread on any forum that I visit, and certainly didn't expect to see it on the Ableton general post page, The biggest issue I and many people in this world of music have is ego, and if you are aware of it, you have found enlightenment..... Thats what I get out of Tolle and it works for me.... Now, if I could just figure out wether to get the APC 40, or the VCM 600.... then I can figure out how to make a set.

[FORMAT]

So, I ask again, help me understand where I am wrong, or where any of my comments are not correct regarding the subject, where I need to alter my perception so as to increase my quota of joy, and I will listen.

The point is: it's not about "increasing your quota of joy". From what I understood, it is just about an old cliché, namely "living every moment as if it's your last". If you're experiencing pain at a certain moment, accept it and experience it as fully as possible, because the present moment simply is.
That was the beauty of Power of Now, for me: I read the first few pages and had already understood. What follows are many helpful details, but "enjoying that I simply am" and "being aware of what my body tells me" is the essence.
What I found inspiring of course is the exercise of "listening to silence" or concentrating on the "nothing" in between things.

[fewture]

WOW, thats a lot of "I's" and "MY's" in all of this, From what I gather listening to Mr. Tolle, He isn't preaching "his way", most of what he says is quoted from different sources.... If he doesn't float your boat, thats cool, but the title of the thread is Eckhart Tolle, so if you really don't like him, don't waste your time brotha.

Of course there is a lot of I's and My's. I am talking about how I practice what I profess. First hand experience. It would be very uncool to dis someone's system without having first given their prescription or versions thereof a good go. I also did not say I did not like him. I have never met him. I originally got involved in this thread as a response to a comment made by rbro about how the present moment just 'Is.' So its perfectly OK to be here in this thread. In actual fact, I fully invite any followers of Tolle or his general flavor to pull me up and set me straight. I stated how I could not actually do what rbro said because of a flaw I see in this type of reasoning. View this as either my limitation (more steps to climb on the path of enlightenment) or a valid counter to someones claims. Either way, Tolle himself does not need defending. His work though fully deserves honest scrutiny before swollwing it hook line and sinker. In fact, the OP started the thread to question Tolle's teaching.

So, walking out on a limb I have exposed my thoughts about it, and found that so far there has been not one single response to my comments that proceed to help me understand better either my inadiquite views or someone else's perfect set of ducks all in a row. So, I ask again, help me understand where I am wrong, or where any of my comments are not correct regarding the subject, where I need to alter my perception so as to increase my quota of joy, and I will listen. Tell me how you follow through on Tolle's teachings and have found them to be 100% AOK. Or, have you a modified version. Do you actually actively and regularly practice his teachings? I have no problem with someone presenting information that puts me in my place.

I think you are missing the point. Being in the 'now' and the 'present moment' is about actually experiencing what is actually happening right now, in terms of your experience, outside of your thoughts of past, future, and yours mind's commentary of what you think you are perceiving now. Its about experiencing the 'now' in a depth most people never experience because they are constantly thinking, and ignoring the depth of what is happening in that moment, a depth they could experience. Its like hearing the most amazing part in a track and for a moment you are no longer thinking about the track or anything else you get pulled right into the 'now' of that moment and are just there experiencing that track whereever it is up to in that moment. The side affects of being pulled into the 'now' like that are generally blissful but thats not the point. Tolle's point is that there is an incredible depth (vast/infinite depth) of the 'now' moment that you can't experience if you are in your mind either thinking about something which has already happened, commentating on your perceptions of what is happening in your immediate experience now, and thinking about some future set of experiences/scenario which hasn't happened yet. When one starts to feel the immediate present moment, and start experience its depth, then one starts to get a sense of what is really real, and the mind chatter was, just mind chatter.

Tolle is not saying anything new, his message is just the same as many sages and self realised teachers over the last few thousand years. Its really an experiential thing, not an intellectual argument. Something to experience, before you really know its truth. Thats why so many of them tell you to sit down and meditate etc, so you actually have the experience and then bring it into your life and then you can appreciate its truth. Its not armchair philosophy.

[chasedestroy]

there are 4 fundamental forces in nature, electromagentism is not the one that hold atoms together.

It is the electromagnetic force that holds electrons and protons together in atoms,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_force

why is the quote coming up as chasedestroy?

yeah man, I know what the electromagnetic force is, I'm an electrical engineer, I know more than you can imagine on that particular topic.

I don't know why it's coming up weird, just change the text.

FRIDAY NIGHT TRIPLE FAIL!! congrats! (joking around, this side argument really isn't relevant.)

whoa... hold on there a second. dont pull me into this. im not sure how i got quoted, but if you take a look, i clearly made a sarcastic remark regarding cookies. none of this forces of nature stuff....

[jesso]

Ekhart is the man. Even if he looks like a leprachaun.
I hope for a time when the power of now and a new earth are on the ciriculum of every school in every country.
The world would be a better place for it.

Glad to see the topic on the forum here too. Means its in peoples heads. I wonder how many people will pick up one of his books because of this thread?

[rbro]

Ekhart is the man. Even if he looks like a leprachaun.
I hope for a time when the power of now and a new earth are on the ciriculum of every school in every country.
The world would be a better place for it.

Glad to see the topic on the forum here too. Means its in peoples heads. I wonder how many people will pick up one of his books because of this thread?

It's going viral.

[gjm]

I think you are missing the point. Being in the 'now' and the 'present moment' is about actually experiencing what is actually happening right now, in terms of your experience, outside of your thoughts of past, future, and yours mind's commentary of what you think you are perceiving now. Its about experiencing the 'now' in a depth most people never experience because they are constantly thinking, and ignoring the depth of what is happening in that moment, a depth they could experience. Its like hearing the most amazing part in a track and for a moment you are no longer thinking about the track or anything else you get pulled right into the 'now' of that moment and are just there experiencing that track whereever it is up to in that moment. The side affects of being pulled into the 'now' like that are generally blissful but thats not the point. Tolle's point is that there is an incredible depth (vast/infinite depth) of the 'now' moment that you can't experience if you are in your mind either thinking about something which has already happened, commentating on your perceptions of what is happening in your immediate experience now, and thinking about some future set of experiences/scenario which hasn't happened yet. When one starts to feel the immediate present moment, and start experience its depth, then one starts to get a sense of what is really real, and the mind chatter was, just mind chatter.

Tolle is not saying anything new, his message is just the same as many sages and self realised teachers over the last few thousand years. Its really an experiential thing, not an intellectual argument. Something to experience, before you really know its truth. Thats why so many of them tell you to sit down and meditate etc, so you actually have the experience and then bring it into your life and then you can appreciate its truth. Its not armchair philosophy.

I totally agree that I am missing the point. What blocks my acceptance of what Tolle and others are saying is that the fundamental foundation of having an experience is to be able to think about it, in the past, present and future. If you are brain dead, your experience is limited. You can't think about 'not thinking.' You cannot exist in a so called place 'in between thoughts.' Being aware that you are 'somewhere' relys on processing information from external and internal events. Even the act of quieting your mind involves purposeful and directed brain activity. You have to think yourself to that point. You have to think about being quiet. You simply cannot be outside of your thoughts.

I suppose this is what really irks me. I feel like it is so easy to see, so obvious to the point of disgust, and it ticks me off that so many people just blindly use the words or concepts of people like Tolle without examination.

I am not disagreeing that there is a quality of experience, or being fully engaged in what is at hand for the individual. What I am saying is that any deep involvement with the 'now' is all about INCREASING THE FOCUS or CONTROLLING your unceasing brain activity, because its impossible to not think!! Its about using thoughts to CONTROL your minds commentary, and in fact INCREASE the size of the net which is being used to capture the sights, sounds, smells, feelings and yes thoughts that occur while your are in this state. Any act of meditation in any discipline involves INCREASING the thinking process in one area, and DECREASING it in others through the active, conscious and thoughtful will of the participant. Again.... you cannot not think.

So as mentioned earlier, nothing simply 'Is.' Everything is a perception. The state of mind that people call 'Now' is just a thought. You cannot be in between thoughts, or in a state of thoughtlessness, for the simple reason that if you can identify the fact that you are there or were there, then you have a memory to recall of some sort.

I suppose my point then must be the opposite of Tolle's. The vast and incredible depth of any 'Now' moment can only be truly experienced by being FULLY INVOLVED WITH YOUR MIND, past present and future, every sense functioning, all the while actively filtering, blocking or accepting the thoughts that will enhance the moment.

[jesso]

Fewture.
Thats an interesting way to look at it. A very complicated, but interesting way. Ekhart might say that it was your mind creating reasons that you can't experience the now.... maybe over intellectualizing it? But what do I know.
My personal experience is that I found the book amazingly helpful for finaly understanding about myself and my relationships ( which were often based in ego ).... although sometimes I find it hard not to slip back into my old ways, I'll never be quite the same again (in a good way). I credit Ekhart with opening me up to a dimension of which I was not conciously aware existed.
Did you feel any connection at all with the words when you were reading the book? Or was it to you just like reading an academic paper or study?

[leonard]

whoa... hold on there a second. dont pull me into this. im not sure how i got quoted, but if you take a look, i clearly made a sarcastic remark regarding cookies. none of this forces of nature stuff....

yeah sorry man, i was pretty off my head for most of the weekend. i'ts likely i didn't know what i was doing.
i dind't realise you were real until just now...