live4 - // edit: fade button ;)

MM303 · Post by **MM303** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:17 pm

hello,

when I drag a *.wav sample on a track in the arrange window

- why does this change the sound of the sample - ???

the setting for the sounds are oneshot (no loop or time stretching)

I made a short test:

I dropped the samples to an audio track

and then I playes the same sounds with the impulse

MM

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:08 pm

would you care to share the Live song? or mail me. or mail Ableton.

MM303 · Post by **MM303** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:07 pm

sorry, I didn't save the live song.... it was just a short test...

but you can repeat it very simple...

the most differences occur, if you take a sample with lot of deep bass frequencies... something like an 808 kick...

If you listen to the first soundfile you'll even hear some modulated noise when the 808 bd is "fading" out

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:16 pm

Haven't checked this out but I suspect that thesimpler engine isn't meant or default set to a flat response as the arranger/session is ..

I might be wrong.

Simpler has many parameters that can be in play ...

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:17 pm

Mbazzy wrote:Haven't checked this out but I suspect that thesimpler engine isn't meant or default set to a flat response as the arranger/session is ..

I might be wrong.

Simpler has many parameters that can be in play ...

he used impulse, but yea, the same rules apply.

milka · Post by **milka** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:57 am

the diffrence between 2 samples is huuuge!
could you also post the original sample to compare?

i always doubted Live's audio engine from the v.1 up (i love the app though don't get me wrong)
somehow the mixes done with Live luck something in the sound ..
and i am not very happy with it's timestretching algorithms that add to much artifacts to the sound especially if one uses acoustic-organic sounds and clear vocals.

peace-milka

P.S. i like the audio engine of Logic but prefer the work flow of Live..... wish there would be a middleway...

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:17 am

thats pretty different. almost as if theres been a compressor or some sort of processing used over one of them.

can you recreate that exact same set and post it online so we can all download it and nit pick?

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:18 am

on a side note, the first one sounds fat and the second one (impulse)sounds pissy

ct43 · Post by **ct43** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:03 am

I prefer the sound of the second one to be honest...

Im doing a new DJ mix in Live at the moment and im really noticing how it can fuck with the sound of the records. Hopefully things will get better as computer power increases. We cant really expect Live to have the sound quality of something like the MPEX algo in cubase, not in real time anyway, with loads of tracks on the go??? I think my PC would blow up. IMO it would be nice for Ableton to make a new algo then give the option of switching it on or off depending if you can spare the CPU...

16 BIT · Post by **16 BIT** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:13 pm

ct43 wrote:
Im doing a new DJ mix in Live at the moment and im really noticing how it can fuck with the sound of the records.

I agree with that. Its a shame but expected. I have also started throwing loops and other phrases in to simpler to avoid using the warp algo. I definitely notice a difference in sound quality.

Recently I was able to go in to a mid size studio with a decent console to mix a track. I was using their Interfaces (Digi 192's) for the seperate outs and when I started bringing stuff through the console I could clearly hear the warping nasties. Multiplied by say 20+ tracks and it was really noticeable and much more so than if I was mixing the track inside the computer. The studio engineer noticed it immediately. This was the first time I transferred loops and other sampled phrases to simpler and there was a noticeable improvement.

Dont think theres anything wrong with the audio engine. This is purely a warp thing in my opinion

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:18 pm

if you drop clips into impulse, make sure the DECAY is at the highest setting, often the sub bass which continues long after the initial snap of a sample gets cut out through impulse's default 2ms setting

statler · Post by **statler** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:54 pm

Yes I agree with sweet jesus.

the default decay-setting in impulse is just 75% NOT the full decay.
to my ears sample 2 sounds like decay on 75%, so no need for discussing the difference between arrangement-sound and the sound of the impulse (i, personally, never heard any difference...)

well and of course you hear a difference when the sound is warped..
but when the sample is unwarped there IS no difference to other DAWs (Logic doesn't even have the abilities to make a loop tempo-sync in real-time - just the destructive way).
I think this topic has been discussed here pretty often, especially here:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... undquality

read the posts of Robert Henke in this topic and you can sleep well again.

<<statler>>

supster · Post by **supster** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:22 pm

statler wrote:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... undquality

read the posts of Robert Henke in this topic and you can sleep well again.

<<statler>>

Guess he settled that.

.. er, actually at the end there Doctor Disco added some doubts.

Great thread overall though one of the best I've ever read on this forum.

MM303 · Post by **MM303** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:30 pm

ok...

try it yourself !!

here's a zipfile containing the live song and the samples...

http://www.soulset.de/livetest.zip

use the crossfader below the master to switch between the two sound sources...

mm

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:35 pm

Hi MM303,

this is all how it should be, but i have to admit that it is confusing:

The Impulse plays back the sample just like any other sample player would do, including the "click" at the beginning of the sample. Nothing wrong here.

The pattern you created in the arrangement view is fooling you!
Select any of the drum samples and have a look at the sample section.
There is a smal button, labeled "fade". It is active. Turn it off for each sound and you will be fine.

The fade option makes no sense for single drum sounds, but it is essential for smooth transitions between loops etc. Maybe we find a clever way in the future to automatically set correct in order to reduce this kind of confusions.

Best,
Robert /
Ableton