Live 8 Transient Detection

[jimbalaya]

Am I being picky about the level of detail for warping?
Was I setting transients incorrectly in prior versions?

This transient placement seems early to me:


My method of warping this track (Jori Hulkkonen - All I See Is Shadows) is as follows:
1) zoom into the very first beat
2) create a new transient at the start of the beat
3) right click the transient & select "Set 1.1.1 Here"
4) right click the warp marker & select "Warp from here"

You can see how Live detected the first transient very early, and how I set the 1.1.1 beat:


This new method of warping seems very similar to previous methods, except now I also have to modify transients as well as warp markers.
I would expect, in the first screen shot above, that the transient would be directly at the beginning of the beat (similar to my 1.1.1 placement), and that I'd simply drag the transient at bar 69 so that it's line with the time ... But since the transient detection is off as well, I have to create the transient and then drag it to be in line with the time.

I suppose that if I just assumed the transients were placed correctly throughout the entire track (so, if I didn't zoom in so far), then the entire track would be "mis-warped" exactly the same (which would make it OK) ... But that's only OK if Live consistently mis-places transients in the same manner/amount every time (so, if it ever warped a song with all of the transients placed slightly LATE in the beat, then everything would sound as if it was SLIGHTLY trainwrecked).

So, am I doing something wrong / being too detailed / expected to place transients all over the place?
Thanks for any help/suggestions on this!

---UPDATE---
I converted the MP3 I was using to AIFF, and tested the same method outlined above with the same results - so, this does not appear to be an issue isolated to MP3 files.

[Hardtoe]

Whoops - I misread you diagram - no further comment - does look way early...

[madcre8r]

i've noticed this too. it's getting way annoying. especially when i have to insert a transient that isn't a warp marker. just really slows down what used to be a very quick process for me.

this whole new warping is getting really annoying in general . the lack of zooming on the top half of the wave form is another pain also.

[starving student]

more on this also, what's the concensus is there a problem with transient detection or not who's hating it and who's loving it, can anyone confirm what the gents above have been going through?

[jimbalaya]

more on this also, what's the concensus is there a problem with transient detection or not who's hating it and who's loving it, can anyone confirm what the gents above have been going through?

The methodology behind the process would be absolutely stunningly fantastic if the transients were placed properly OR if we can confirm that transients are consistently placed X milliseconds prior to the "actual" beat/note/change ... in either case, the result would be a consistent warp.

As soon as I get some free time, I'll toss some more audio files into it and see if I get consistent transient detection (whether it's spot on or not isn't really the issue, if you think about it). If I find anything that deviates from what I've already stated, I'll provide screen shots.

[starving student]

thanks that would be cool

[siliconarc]

you do realise you're zoomed in pretty far there? it's hardly an inaccurate detection.
i think the markers are placed at a zero crossing nearest to the transient. not sure though.

anyway, audible difference example mp3s or stfu

[Willyum]

I've had decent results, but yes it does need refinement... and a 'sensitivity' value box.

[q.musgrove]

audible difference example mp3s or stfu

+1

[forge]

I find "Preserve transients" mode is maybe more useful for short samples/loops - for longer files you invariably have to go through and adjust transients or you will hear glitching. You can do this if you want to as you only need to do it once then hit 'save' but for DJ tracks I would prefer to use repitch mode (which is more like CDJ or vinyl) or Complex pro if you want to change the tempo a lot

I haven't been overly happy with preserve transients for this reason, it almost always creates glitches

[jon_moore]

I find "Preserve transients" mode is maybe more useful for short samples/loops - for longer files you invariably have to go through and adjust transients or you will hear glitching. You can do this if you want to as you only need to do it once then hit 'save' but for DJ tracks I would prefer to use repitch mode (which is more like CDJ or vinyl) or Complex pro if you want to change the tempo a lot

I haven't been overly happy with preserve transients for this reason, it almost always creates glitches

100% agreement here.

[ajstrax]

The new warp has slowed me down quite a bit. It works okay, but the transient detection is NOT precise. Moreover, it takes way too long to "insert" warp markers at the proper transient. Abes need to give us a "toggle" mode so we can switch between the previous way of warping (i.e., Live 7). Both have their strengths and weaknesses. We need the option to use whichever works for us! Even if we "get used to" the new warping method, the older way just works better for some material (i.e., acapellas or material light on transients). Anyway,,,

[jimbalaya]

you do realise you're zoomed in pretty far there? it's hardly an inaccurate detection.
i think the markers are placed at a zero crossing nearest to the transient. not sure though.

anyway, audible difference example mp3s or stfu

Thanks for suggesting I get actual audio examples - I got so caught up in what's on the screen that I forgot it'll actually SOUND like something

But yeah, I'm completely aware that the second screen shot is zoomed in ridiculously close (100% zoom, actually) ... I thought that the first screen shot was a reasonable zoom, though.

Either way, I did ask "Am I being picky about the level of detail for warping?" in the very first line of my post - so, I think you answered that for me

I've just done a quick ~15min blind mix session (just grabbing mp3s that I've got tagged as having the same BPM & key) and I've warped each track as I've loaded them by using only transients ... I don't think I notice any slight trainwrecking at all. Also, I've noticed that by blindly letting Ableton do its thing and use the transients it suggests, etc - warping is INSANELY easy and much faster than the previous method.

I'll continue testing/mixing to see if the transient detection becomes an issue, but at this point I'm ready to say that I was just being too much of a perfectionist with my warping - we'll see...

[alexaaz]

I'm getting pretty bad results from the transient detector... actually the opposite of what was reported here, the transients are being picked up late.

Adjustable sensitivity for the transients (a la Recycle) is a must.

The drum rack is mislabelled too. It's labelled 'X-Fade/Snap' but 'Snap' is actually to the left of the knob so it should be 'Snap/X-Fade'.

I'm back in Recycle for now. This was actually one of the reasons I upgraded to Live 8; I thought I'd have no need for Recycle anymore and thus an accelerated workflow.

Alex

[alexaaz]

How are people finding the transient detector for beats vs Recycle?

It's requiring much more tweaking than Recycle for me.

Thanks,

Alex