Many questions for those who use hardware synths:

[MadPsyance]

I'm using the demo of both live 7 and 8 and I just don't get it!
What I'm trying to do is record the knob movements on my hardware synth into a midi clip. Okay, it records the automation no problem..but it only plays it back some of the time! I have no clue why it plays back some time and not others. The data that is getting recorded is 6: Data entry and also sometimes 98,99 NRPN's LSB,MSB.

Also am I to understand that only one parameter (knob movement) can be recorded into the clip?

I can't find any documentation on this anywhere in the manual and searching the forums didn't help at all.

I really want to purchase a full version, but am reluctant until I can figure these simple things out that I've been doing with my MPC in the past.

Can anyone point me to some clear documentation or resource that explains CC automation with regards to external hardware?

[twisted-space]

Live only works with control change messages (not sysex or nrpn) so unless your synth uses cc messages for parameter automation it wont work.
From your description it sounds like the synth is using nrpn's, what synth is it?

[MadPsyance]

Korg Electribe EA-1.

According to the manual, it can send and receive CC,Sysex, and NRPN.
When I arm the track in live(external instrument)and select record and overdub and tweak, say, the cutoff knob on the electribe, the automation gets recorded in the clip envelope under Midi Control #6 Data.
And it plays back...sometimes.

I just figured something out...this seems to have something to do with the start markers in the clip..sometimes after I overdub midi cc's the start and end markers will have a little tiny section in the time field looped and I can't move the start marker...

Also something weird..I just tried to record cc data and it recorded like normal but wouldn't play back. So I moved to clip to another track and back again...and magic! It works! Why??

Another weird thing...recording with punch out won't record cc data, but loop recording will..as long as it loops back to the begining before I hit stop. But then the start marker is where I hit stop and the clip is now split into 2 clips. If I then try to move the start marker back to the beginning, my electribe stops recieving cc mesages..although the envelope is still in the clip.

[adventurepants_]

Youll need to use something like Bomes to translate the NPRN-CC messages both ways to get it to work properly. Though, that said, I never tried to play back sequences on the EA from Live with recorded CC data. The filter is garbage anyway, sonically it would be better just recording your sequence and then using a filter VST.

I hate the sounds that thing makes, what it is awesome for, is to use as a hardware controller for a soft synth in ableton. Its perfect for a bass synth or 303 type vst. I made a patch with Bomes so that everything on the electribe controlleed the corresponding control on the vst. It was a lot of fun with the step sequencer running.

this page may help:
http://www.freewebs.com/sobotoys/mapping%20engl.html

[MadPsyance]

Let me post a step by step process of what I'm doing:

I start a blank project. I insert an external instrument device on a new track. I set my midi and audio ins and outs accordingly. Yes it works fine.

To record notes, I put the loop brackets on 1-5 for a 4 bar section. I turn punch-out on to stop recording at bar 5. Arm the track and hit record and play and wait for count-in. Then record.

Okay it records fine. I turn punch out off and loop switch on so the notes will loop. Okay so far.

Now I'll record CC data. I make sure the cursor is at the start of where I want to record...make sure the track is armed. Punch out is on and loop is off. Overdub is on.

Okay damnit! This time it's working perfectly, last time the automation wouldn't send the cc's to the electribe at all.

Okay, this time I'm gonna start from scratch and record with loop on and punch out off.

So I recorded my knob tweaks while in overdub and loop switch on and let it play through once while tweaking cutoff and hit stop. The clip is now split in 2 where I hit stop...a little after 1.3. It seems to be playing back the cc automation okay for now.

The first clip starts at 1.1 in the main timeline and ends about 1.3 where I hit stop. It shows 5 and a half bars in clip view(let me remind you this is only a 4 bar pattern!)It shows all the automation cc's, but notes don't start until bar 5. There is a loop brace from bar 5- about 5 1/2..this is also where the notes end. There are start and end markers exactly where the loop brace starts and ends.

The second clip starts at about 1.3 in the main timeline and ends at 5. In clip view, all the cc recorded data is also there. The loop brace is at 1-5 as I would expect. But the start marker doesn't start until 1.3. This is also where the notes start.

Damnit it seems to work this time! Just because I took the time to write all this crap down I guess. But can someone check out my procedure to see if there's something I'm obviously not getting...I definitely don't want my ableton experience to be hit or miss.

One last weird thing:

If I'm tweaking other knobs on the electribe while the loop is playing back, the new knob that I tweak will begin to automate and overide the first knob! Why?? Record is not on, nor is overdub or anything like that. The only thing I can think of is that it seems the only data that get's recorded is #6 data entry and this controlls all paramters sent to it..the weird thing though..the "knob overide" is totally unpredictable. It seems to work best if I hit stop first, tweakt the knob and most of the time this new knob will begin to be the one to be automated.

I feel very disappointed, because it seems live does not work well the external gear. On my MPC I can record every single knob movement and layer them on top of each other if I wanted. This sucks becaus the Live workflow seems really great and I had planned on buying it today after I got this hardware snag under control, but it looks like it's just not do-able.

[oddeo]

Sometimes it is the external gear that does not work well with Ableton.

I use a Korg M3 with Ableton. I had to fiddle around to get things working the way I want.

Here is a description of what I did to get things working the way I wanted. Obviously your Electribe and my M3 are going to work a little different, but a lot of it should be the same. I also attached a template for it.
http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthre ... #post85361

The only thing I do not like about Ableton regarding MIDI is the amount of midi info you can see. For example, in Ableton I can record the SYSEX controls from my Korg M3, BUT!!! I cannot alter them. I may want the CC automation I recorded but may not want the SYSEX I recorded. The CC I can go in and edit, delete, etc. If I accidentally record a SYSEX message I have no way of deleting it out of the clip. Se be careful. It would be nice if Ableton worked like Logic or DP in this regards so you can remove the SYSEX you do not want.

Otherwise Ableton works really well for this stuff.