Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jer_mcclain
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Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by jer_mcclain » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:48 pm

I am curious to hear from those of you who own MPCs and SP 1200s about how close Live gets to the real thing.
MacBook Pro - Live Suite - Mira - APC40 - Apogee Duet - Grado SR325i

contakt321
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by contakt321 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:09 pm

Me too! I don't have 8 yet but I am very curious as to how they stack up. Has anyone tried a comparison?

Johnisfaster
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by Johnisfaster » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:30 pm

I haven't compared them but I know that the new grooves make my head bobble. isn't that the whole point?
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

robleighton22
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by robleighton22 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:53 pm

had an mpc, reckon ableton 8's potential for different groves is better. there is more you can adjust, and the fact you can nick grooves from samples definitely makes it better. mpc's r still ace, think akai made the right move making a flagship ableton controller, as a lot of ppl will see more benefit using ableton. obviously if use ableton anyway, u know there are many more benefits than just being able to mimic the mpc's groove - but this is a big feature. when i go back to ableton 7, the lack of a groove editor is the most missing feature. the old swing was so robotic.

i3igTripplets
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by i3igTripplets » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:57 pm

I have yet to figure out how to truly utilize the groove - I watched the demo a few times and haven't been able to really utilize it.


contakt321
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by contakt321 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:14 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:I haven't compared them but I know that the new grooves make my head bobble. isn't that the whole point?
Very true, however, I can make my head bobble manually moving notes or recording with quantize off. I wanna be LAZY!

contakt321
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by contakt321 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:15 pm

robleighton22 wrote:had an mpc, reckon ableton 8's potential for different groves is better. there is more you can adjust, and the fact you can nick grooves from samples definitely makes it better. mpc's r still ace, think akai made the right move making a flagship ableton controller, as a lot of ppl will see more benefit using ableton. obviously if use ableton anyway, u know there are many more benefits than just being able to mimic the mpc's groove - but this is a big feature. when i go back to ableton 7, the lack of a groove editor is the most missing feature. the old swing was so robotic.
I absolutely agree and has been something I have missed for a while. The funny thing is as much as I have been dying for this feature in Live, most of my old MPC beats had a swing of 51-53 (aka not very much at all).

Lazos
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by Lazos » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:45 pm

paraclude wrote:I am curious to hear from those of you who own MPCs and SP 1200s about how close Live gets to the real thing.

The "real thing" being a REAL drummer you mean?

v00d00ppl
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by v00d00ppl » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:10 am

i3igTripplets wrote:I have yet to figure out how to truly utilize the groove - I watched the demo a few times and haven't been able to really utilize it.

the quickest way to understand how the grooves work with your playing is to pay to a metronome, then do the swings.

So far, i got the sp-1200 groove mastered because i actually read the sp-1200 manual and was able to apply the same concept to the sp-1200 swing.

i wrote a little tutorial on it:
http://www.abeaddict.com/node/92

I'm still trying to finish up on my mpc/roger linn groove article, so expecrt that soon.
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

petit nuage
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Tue May 12, 2009 9:38 pm

salut ! i have an mpc 2000 xl and live 8 ..

i think live groove engine is really nice but i find - between an mpc 1/16 earlier with 50 swing and mpc 1/16 double up 50- the mpc quantization more funky and impredictable..in the good way !!

sometimes i just want to straight up and get more linear midi sequence but my mpc dont want and give me some wonderful funky things..

maybe its because mpc dont have any latency ..

even if i use it as main sequencer for ableton live .


so maybe , i still dont know very very well the new groove pool feature with its lot of little settings ..

if someone who owns an mpc could help me in order to mimic the mpc behaviour in the closest way it would be nice ! (putting the good percentage in quantize , random ,timing ,dynamic..)

but for what i saw .. my mpc is a really wild little funky beast ! héhé

it just my opinion :wink:

kb420
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by kb420 » Tue May 12, 2009 9:51 pm

petit nuage wrote:salut ! i have an mpc 2000 xl and live 8 ..

i think live groove engine is really nice but i find - between an mpc 1/16 earlier with 50 swing and mpc 1/16 double up 50- the mpc quantization more funky and impredictable..in the good way !!

sometimes i just want to straight up and get more linear midi sequence but my mpc dont want and give me some wonderful funky things..

maybe its because mpc dont have any latency ..

even if i use it as main sequencer for ableton live .


so maybe , i still dont know very very well the new groove pool feature with its lot of little settings ..

if someone who owns an mpc could help me in order to mimic the mpc behaviour in the closest way it would be nice ! (putting the good percentage in quantize , random ,timing ,dynamic..)

but for what i saw .. my mpc is a really wild little funky beast ! héhé

it just my opinion :wink:


Groove is the bomb!!!!!


If you really believe that the groove in your mpc is different, then there is a solution. All you have to do is make a longer sequence to extract a groove from.

Do this:

Make a beat on your MPC with a high hat on every 1/16th note. Choose the swing that you want on your mpc. Now, record this as audio into Live. Record 32 bars or more. Hell, record 5:00 minutes of the MPC playing that 1 bar loop at the swing that you want.

Once that is recorded into Live, just extract the groove. Any abnormalities (positive timing differences) in the MPC will be extracted and your new swing is in the groove pool.

Problem solved.

Now, go and get your groove on!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VOMzdzXl8M
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

petit nuage
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Wed May 13, 2009 10:52 pm

thanks for your help kb420 !

but i ve tried your method with one bar loop , or mpc 's 2 bar default setting , with mpc and live sync in midi , but no i cannot have the same funky quantization ..

with mpc quantization its quasi perfect at the first time , notes are very well placed in time with live no ..i have to make adjustements in settings and notes ..really boring !


i cant find the same quantization behaviour !


do you have an mpc ?

make randomly a fast phrase at 120 bpm and quantize it by exple at 1/16 ,earlier , 50 swing ,listen how it sounds ..

record audio or midi in live and extract the groove from that


do the same kind of phrase in live 8 and apply to it the previous extracted groove ..
and listen

with mpc you have all the time this perfect human drummer feel... its more accurate ,more solid ..


its hard to explain ...


im a funky musician and i saw a difference ... :lol:


but i hope i'll can do it in live because its my main daw and i love it !!


so i need some help to mimic perfectly the mpc quantization ..(at least 1/16 earlier/later ,50 swing )

thanks !

v00d00ppl
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by v00d00ppl » Wed May 13, 2009 11:46 pm

petit nuage wrote:thanks for your help kb420 !

but i ve tried your method with one bar loop , or mpc 's 2 bar default setting , with mpc and live sync in midi , but no i cannot have the same funky quantization ..

with mpc quantization its quasi perfect at the first time , notes are very well placed in time with live no ..i have to make adjustements in settings and notes ..really boring !


i cant find the same quantization behaviour !


do you have an mpc ?

make randomly a fast phrase at 120 bpm and quantize it by exple at 1/16 ,earlier , 50 swing ,listen how it sounds ..

record audio or midi in live and extract the groove from that


do the same kind of phrase in live 8 and apply to it the previous extracted groove ..
and listen

with mpc you have all the time this perfect human drummer feel... its more accurate ,more solid ..


its hard to explain ...


im a funky musician and i saw a difference ... :lol:


but i hope i'll can do it in live because its my main daw and i love it !!


so i need some help to mimic perfectly the mpc quantization ..(at least 1/16 earlier/later ,50 swing )

thanks !

is your midi controller direct midi access or is it using the usb port as a medium?
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

aftertouch
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by aftertouch » Wed May 13, 2009 11:59 pm

another factor to take in mind when discussing the sp1200 swing is that back then waveforms where chopped by ear, and not with a surgical waveform display like we have these days. These lazy few ms on the start of samples would help introduce a later start.

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