::Ableton New Product Speculation Thread::

buzzcock · Post by **buzzcock** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:47 pm

ejectorset-

The trouble is not with VSTs that recognize incoming MIDI, but with using VSTs as the SOURCE of MIDI information- such as Groove Agent, which can produce Audio of its own but also output its patterns in MIDI to other instruments, like Battery. So far this is not available in any version of Live.

(and it's killing me, slowly and painfully)

ikeaboy · Post by **ikeaboy** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:55 pm

Yeah Basically, in my VST folder i've arrpegiators and midi delays and such from an install of Sonar 3 that I tried out. These never show up in live.

I badly want a midi delay for playing live, have you ever messed around with Yamaha hardware like the RMX groovebox? Its midi fx gave me that "gota have it" rush where tons of possibilities hit you all at once.

MidiFX are much more effient on CPU than AudioFX and can give similar results in the case of delays or sound like a instant hands on rythm re-write (fun to do and to say ).

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:06 pm

yeah i defiantely want a midi delay in live too, but from playing around with max/msp and looking at the audiounit spec it wouldn't be a problem there.

i have no idea about vst though. i have only made audio units. i would think it is definately on the way though as live comes with some devices that are midi effects that process the midi data then pass it along.

ryansupak · Post by **ryansupak** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:27 pm

hear hear on the push-pull functionality...so long as it allows you to alter the position of one playing audio track relative to another with the push of a button...otherwise, for my money, MAX or (the free) PD will do the job now...

rs

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:15 pm

MAX or PD?

dmc · Post by **dmc** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:42 pm

i think ikeaboy is on it.

given mr. henke's approach to music and some of the stuff the abletons have said over the years, my guess is that this will be a non-linear "sequencer".

while live4 is freakin' great, an algorithmic/arpeggiator-like midi generator would definately take it further in the direction of a Live instrument.

and while "Operator" does sound like an FM synth, but I can't believe that it really plays to their strong suit to code that kind of a beast, especially with the number of really great softsynths already out there.

an innovative approach to sequencing is a much better differentiator.

plus, it's what i;d really like

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:22 am

hey some settings which I think are in operator from reading the source code of ableton.exe

EnableSpread
Voicemanagement
Portamento set time
Frequency Key Scale
Lfo Freq
Envelope Serialiser
4Fixedfrewquency settings
Several waveforms
Phase selection on the waveforms
There will be 4 operators
FixedFrequency
Low quality and high quality algorithms
Coarse and fine velocity adjustment
Random panning
Key panning
Repeat time
loop mode
sustain level
MIDI ARPEGGIATOR!!!!!
some kind of pitch to envelope modulation
some settings regarding retro display red or green
theres some references to korg and digidesign in there too...

drez · Post by **drez** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:27 am

very nice, SJ. Good thinking

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:28 am

if only ableton would gimme a free prize for figuring that out

EDIT: and i hope that prize is not a lawsuit like apple!

Vercengetorex · Post by **Vercengetorex** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:15 am

Nice work on sorting through the code there sweetjesus.

Based on the fact that Ableton has never made "just another DAW" I wouldnt expect them to make "just another FM synth".

My first thought was that Mr. Henke was the primary force behind the Grain Delay, and Lives inherently granular nature I imagine an synth to come out of Abletons headquarters would be granular in nature.

The name Operator is an obvious reference to FM synthesis (Yamaha used the term refering to oscillators on thier rather ubiquitious FM synth), so what I am thinking is we will see something new from the boys in Berlin.

This is where a bit of imagination comes in.

FM Graintable synthesis.
Take the graintable concept found in the Reason synth "Maelstrom", allow users to load the graintable with any audio clip, and combine that with a few (read: four) oscillators and frequency modulate the grainular resynthesis parameters with the "operators" instead of the randimization found in most "granualizers".

I think that sweetjesuses finding support this concept:

EnableSpread - spread is usually a graunlar parameter, not an FM control

Frequency Key Scale - would be necessary when modulating a prexisintg audio file with an oscilator to essentially provide for "tuning" the modulated output

loop mode - obvious (to loop the file in the graintable)

I am hoping this is at least the direction Ableton is heading, but I guess we'll see soon.

boomklik · Post by **boomklik** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:33 am

sweetjesus wrote:hey some settings which I think are in operator from reading the source code of ableton.exe

EnableSpread
Voicemanagement
Portamento set time
Frequency Key Scale
Lfo Freq
Envelope Serialiser
4Fixedfrewquency settings
Several waveforms
Phase selection on the waveforms
There will be 4 operators
FixedFrequency
Low quality and high quality algorithms
Coarse and fine velocity adjustment
Random panning
Key panning
Repeat time
loop mode
sustain level
MIDI ARPEGGIATOR!!!!!
some kind of pitch to envelope modulation
some settings regarding retro display red or green
theres some references to korg and digidesign in there too...

Doesnt this violate the user agreement that accompanied the software?
I beleive it stated no "dissassembling". Im not trying to get down on people, but my income is dependent on people not stealing my companies software...so I am curious as to how much fear people have of doing such things.

And to put my thoughts in on the new product...a plugin suite containing at least 1 synth....hopefully.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:42 am

I will remove the post if ableton so wish, but i didnt disassmble or decompile it in any shape or form. I simply loaded the file into notepad and searched for "operator" (for those who think i did some black magic in order to obtain this).

I would like to think that I did something bad only if I reverse engineered the software and figured out the algorithms used to actually do the work.

I'm not that good..

boomklik · Post by **boomklik** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:48 am

I agree in that I see no harm in your actions. But, I am always curious regarding actual legal implications vs. probable recourse.

unnoficially---good work...(MIDI ARPEGGIATOR!!!!!)

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:52 am

Sweetjesus - you are NICKED, me old son. The goon squad replete with Joh Bielke-Peterson rubber masks should be battering down your door about......now.

I think we better bundle you off to a secret location and disavow any knowledge to the secretary.

But F'N GOOD ON YA MATE.

I was (am!) really intrigued to see if the A-Team's next offering would slant towards live performance or DAW functionality... GodDamnHellAndHigh Water I hope its something that blows the bloody doors off!

nunrgguy · Post by **nunrgguy** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:33 am

Simple additions for me - MIDI recall of FX presets, full rewire capability (full duplex MIDI)