Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust

[Dick Cheney]

I really hate this subject because 1.) I hate conspiracy theorists 2.) I hate not knowing all the facts and those two don't go well together, however, the evidence is this case is extremely compelling. If you guys have not seen the documentary "Zeitgeist", which is exactly about this subject, you would be robbing yourself if you didn't watch it (go to google video) even though Alex Jones is kind of a nutjob.

[ethios4]

hehehe, you think Alex Jones is a nutjob and yet you're telling people to go watch Zeitgeist? Pffft...

[Dick Cheney]

Well I can think he's a nutjob and still watch his films, read his stuff, and listen to his interviews objectively and come to my own conclusions.

[ethios4]

Hahaha....yea, me too. I hate that there's such a credibility gap with most of these people. They can be making many good point, and then throw up absolute rubbish that reveals a lack of integrity. Annoying. That's why I said that about Zeitgeist....the first section is so erroneous that for me it casts serious doubt on the credibility of parts 2 & 3.

I much prefer articles like the ones linked in this post.

[Green Lemon]

Yeah, I haven't really checked it out in depth but this information is not new, and it is weird. Apart from the chemical traces of explosives found in the dust, there is also a whole different tower that collapsed, not one of the 2 hit by the planes but another one- WTF made it collapse? The towers fell into their own footprints (which is not actually surprising when you understand the construction methods used and the type of structural failure- the steel melted and they impacted straight down). Well, like I said I am not really holding my breath for any movement on this, and it does smack of pulp fiction conspiracy theories, but on the other hand we all know (or should) that in August 2001 His Shrubbery received a report entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the U.S.", and couldn't be bothered about it, so whatever that means.

[Dick Cheney]

Hahaha....yea, me too. I hate that there's such a credibility gap with most of these people. They can be making many good point, and then throw up absolute rubbish that reveals a lack of integrity. Annoying. That's why I said that about Zeitgeist....the first section is so erroneous that for me it casts serious doubt on the credibility of parts 2 & 3.

I much prefer articles like the ones linked in this post.

Right? It seems like there is such an urge to fill in the blanks sometimes with these people, and to tell you the truth the only reason I hate conspiracy theorist is my one friend who seemingly bases his whole life on these theories and symbolisms, yet he refuses to watch mainstream news or take any news from any source, but I think he is too lazy to look for his own truth and too eager to take people like Jones to heart. I hate mainstream media as much as the next guy, but I cant go a day without out my newspaper, my CNN, and my countless internet news sources; although I know for a fact that a healthy portion of said sources are very skewed.

[rpc9943]

why wouldnt it be possible that the terrorists set those in the building to ensure it goes all the way down?

RonC

[ethios4]

^ It IS a possibility, which makes it even more strange that the "authorities" in this matter refuse to even look at the kind of evidence Steven Jones is bringing forth. What if terrorists somehow DID plant those explosives? Wouldn't that indicate a far-greater reaching threat to the US that needs to be addressed?

[Dick Cheney]

thats a good point.....

[Emissary]

You know what they say, never let hard material science get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

The fact of the matter is though, ALL the science completely and utterly backs up the conspiracy theory. I mean Nist actually had to come up with a new never observed or yet tested phenomena (thermal expansion) to basically backup up their theory. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. Please present me with one piece of observable science that backs up any of NISTS claims.

[Green Lemon]

You know what they say, never let hard material science get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

The fact of the matter is though, ALL the science completely and utterly backs up the conspiracy theory. I mean Nist actually had to come up with a new never observed or yet tested phenomena (thermal expansion) to basically backup up their theory. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. Please present me with one piece of observable science that backs up any of NISTS claims.

That's funny, I had pretty much the same reaction- the hard materials science points to a conspiracy theory, Zebra. If you're gonna poke fun at least get your cause and FX chain in line.

[UKRuss]

Hilarious!

I found some WTC dust in my cereal this morning. I think this is proof the whole thing was planned by Kellogs. To us e uilding materials for cheap cereal and palm it off as real wheat product.

I looked into it and used words like 'pyrotechnic' and 'thermeticititytity' in an authoritative and pseudo-intellectual tone.

You've just got to see the hrda science inf front your eyez!11!!!1!1

[smutek]

Try to play out the whole inside job theory and see how if you can make it add up to a realistic scenario.

How would they have done it?

You could assume that the hijackers were operating completely independently and that there was rock-solid information (not, there will be an attack sometime in the future, or these guys look pretty damn suspicious) regarding the activities of the hi-jackers and that this was diverted from the proper channels to the people who needed it while being intentionally ignored over official channels.

Or you could assume that this group was cultivated from the start by some group in the United States government - thinking it was acting independently but all the while "guided" along on its mission by US intelligence.

In either case strings would have to be pulled to ensure there would be no snares for the group over the months as they plotted, moved, and prepared to execute the attacks.

Separately, in anticipation of the pending attacks teams would have to be dispatched to place explosives at key points in both towers and then sit back and wait for the attack to happen.

Similarly stings would also have to be pulled to ensue the protection of these teams - even more so, one can explain catching a terrorist cell, but how does one explain the outing of a team of trained explosives experts with US Government ties doing their work covertly inside the WTC tower's?

So, at all stages, how many people would have been involved for an operation of this scale?

Consider that typical CIA rendition operation consists of between 20 - 30 agents, just for the snatch and transportation after.

For something like 9/11, at what levels of the operation does compartmentalization no longer offer 100% protection from the prospect of the participants in the IC being able to piece together what they are participating in? 100% protection is essential because most people in the IC are actually patriots, believe it or not, some of them may be misguided, but you wont find many people who would willing participate in something like this.

So rock solid compartmentalization is absolutely essential.

But beyond that level, where the participants have to have full or near full operational knowledge to do their job, how many of these people do you need?

50? A hundred?

Well, the team placing the explosives in the WTC for one I would certainly think. The team who cultivated/followed/monitored the hijackers would also have to be pretty high on the list.

Where do you find these people? Who picks them?

Also, remember that all of these people need to keep their mouths shut and must be unquestionably dedicated to the mission - .ie destroying the twin towers and killing thousands of Americans crosses a different moral "grey area" then violating the sovereignty of another nation, kidnapping one of its citizens and sending him/her off to be tortured... an inside job such as 9/11 goes a bit beyond this.

A TS/SCI clearance isn't quite going to be enough here.

How do you get all of the people involved to keep quiet? liquidating them isn't a realistic answer because again, where do you find the people that would be willing to assassinate Americans and keep their mouths shut about it?

I'm not saying anything against the people who believe it was an inside job, I agree there are a lot of questions.

I just don't see, logistically, how it could possibly have been planned and executed by our government. Maybe another government with really effective and efficient intelligence apparatus could do this, but I can't see how it could happen here.

I'd love to read a theory that attempts to explain how such an operation would have been executed and kept secret but I've never seen one.

[majais]

The best part is still that the real terrorist are all of us (not US like in United States but us like you and me) because it is our human subconscious that makes 9/11 and all the rest of the s... in this world happen!
We are all responsible, so stop looking for the bad guys everywhere and clean your subconscious! 100% responsibility! Clear ALL of the s... out of your head and the world is a better place.
Sorry I couldn't resist... peace!

[Emissary]

Try to play out the whole inside job theory and see how if you can make it add up to a realistic scenario.

How would they have done it?

You could assume that the hijackers were operating completely independently and that there was rock-solid information (not, there will be an attack sometime in the future, or these guys look pretty damn suspicious) regarding the activities of the hi-jackers and that this was ignored.

Or you could assume that this group was cultivated from the start by some group in the United States government - thinking it was acting independently but all the while "guided" along on its mission by US intelligence.

In both cases the proper calls were made to ensure there were no snares for the group over the months as they plotted and prepared to execute the attacks.

Separately, in anticipation of the pending attacks teams were dispatched to place explosives at key points in both towers then sit back and wait for it to happen.

So, at all stages, how many people would have been involved for an operation of this scale?
At what levels of the operation does compartmentalization no longer offer 100% protection from the prospect of the participants in the IC being able to piece together what they are participating in?

And beyond that level, where the participants have full or near full operational knowledge, how many of these people do you need?

50? A hundred?

Well, the team placing the explosives in the WTC for one I would certainly think. The team who cultivated/followed/monitored the hijackers would also have to be pretty high on the list.

Also, remember that all of these people need to keep their mouths shut and must be unquestionably dedicated to the mission - .ie destroying the twin towers and killing thousands of Americans crosses a different moral "grey area" then violating the sovereignty of another nation, kidnapping one of its citizens and sending him/her off to be tortured... an inside job such as 9/11 goes a bit beyond this.

A TS/SCI clearance isn't quite going to be enough here.

How do you get all of the people involved to keep quiet? liquidating them isn't a realistic answer because again, where do you find the people that would be willing to assassinate Americans and keep their mouths shut about it?

I'm not saying anything against the people who believe it was an inside job, I agree there are a lot of questions.

I just don't see, logistically, how it could possibly have happened. I'd love to read a theory that attempts to explain how such an operation would have been executed and kept secret but I've never seen one.

Please read this. It explains the logistics and the entire timeline. All the discrepancies and the reason behind the whole thing. The guy was a narcotics detective who became aware that the cia was drug running and so started up a site called from the wilderness.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crossing-Rubico ... 283&sr=8-1

And the reason you havent heard of it is because all the conspiracy guys (alex jones etc) think the guy is a cia plant and so refuse to deal with him, so he is totally off radar. Anybody that alex jones doesn't like has my immediate attention