Do you equate Hip Hop listenership with shady activity?

[starving student]

IMHO anything related to hip-hop is shady and should be outlawed, especially making it and/or playing it in public - its a disease that is ruining good clubs the world over!

the only thing shady related to hiphop is your opinion about it, you should stop lying you know if Tiesto wanted to make a hiphop record with you you'd be dancing on your trippy trancy progressive house tippy toes right about now

[beats me]

what do you expect I mean it really is a case of being informed, if you're only familiar with golden era hiphop legends or the last 5 years of current rapmusic that you hear on your radio then what's there to discuss.
the same people probably think the glith mob is hiphop and that prefuse73 is electro or somethin., have you ever heard of blue/exile, have you ever heard of ras g, what about crayz walls, do you listen to percee p, yeah he's a legend too but an all era one. the reason these hiphop threads are always so long is cause they're always full of alot of hate and they're always full of people who don't even like hiphop stuck for some reason in a hiphop thread or in some incredible cases even the thread is started by someone who doesn't like the music, sometimes if not most of the time I get very tired of these threads but then sometime I think maybe they are good because they never are really about the merrits of the artform I mean how can a group of people who know nothing about a topic discuss the merrits of that topic, so really the threads end up being about something else like race relations between black and white people and to be honest it's kind of a good thing. their is no real dialogue on the subject, cnn keeps doing specials on black people in america thinking that thats dialogue but it's more of exploitation

so this thread is probably the closest thread on this forum actualy titled closely to the truth of what it's all about, thumbs up to beatsme for that no matter what he thinks of the music or his neighbors.

Every so often somebody will post a "I hate Dave Matthews Band" topic but largely it's hatred of the fan base. Since it's mostly white people complaining about a small segment of white people it seems harmless and no big deal. But complain about Hip Hop and by extension black people and it's a big controversy.

But the main difference in that comparison is that some people also find a lot of Hip Hop lyrics ranging from offensive to retarded and therefore question what that says about the listener.

[starving student]

thats because when they talk about dave mathews there not trying to discredit a whole genre or artform also when a small group of white people are complaining about another small group of white people who like dave mathews they usualy don't talk about shadyness or predjudice also there is none of that " by extension about black people" stuff that you quoted ^^^ which makes dave mathews a pretty bad example lol. anyway what is it that you actualy think about all of those white people that make up the majority of the public that pays for that rapmusic you are talking about?

I mean if the lyrics are retarded and you're saying that says alot about the listener but it doesn't seem like your talking about raps number 1 fans?

[LoopStationZebra]

Indeed. I fucking hate the Dave Matthews Band and don't need fuck all knowledge of horrid college rock history to do so. In fact, I fucking hate all college rock and talk shit about it all the time and don't need fuck all knowledge of college rock or rock and roll to do so.

It's great how that works.

[leisuremuffin]

there's a big problem with that argument, beats me.


Dave Matthews Band is one band, Hip Hop is an entire genre

Before you can judge Hip Hop lyrics as retarded or offensive you'd have to be familiar with a really big pile of lyrics.


if you had said Soulja Boy's lyrics are retarded, you'd have a position that you could defend through examination of evidence. But when you say Hip Hop lyrics are offensive or retarded you are simply ignorant. ---> Because for every lyric in hip hop that you point out as retarded or offensive, i can point out another that is witty or deep. Hip Hop is a BIG thing.


however, even if you can defend a position of thinking that his lyrics are retarded, you cannot then judge a person because they listen to it.


I think Phish's music is retarded music school wankery, and i could defend that position, but i have friends that i really like and respect that for whatever reason love that garbage. I don't hate all "jam rock," in fact i love the dead. And I don't judge them because they listen to "jam rock." And they don't all look or act like jam band fans... And the ones that do look and act like jam band fans AREN'T ALL THE SAME PERSON. They are individuals and should be judged as such.





.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

Indeed. I fucking hate the Dave Matthews Band and don't need fuck all knowledge of horrid college rock history to do so. In fact, I fucking hate all college rock and talk shit about it all the time and don't need fuck all knowledge of college rock or rock and roll to do so.

It's great how that works.

maybe not, but how many bands are defined as college rock?



Hip hop is a more than 30 year long tradition that encompasses a whole lot more music than "college rock."


and if you think you don't need the knowledge of rock and roll to talk shit about it, you're right, you don't. You can talk shit about it as much as you like, but it exposes you as ignorant and close minded. You have no idea all of the great music you're missing because of your point of view.



.lm.

[starving student]

I don't really care how stupid someones opinion is, I'll never be better than any other human being at being a human being but I just wish that whatever it is that you as a person espouse that you do it in a way that at least follows the rules of your own argument for petes sake, and beats has yet to do so. he obvioulsly thinks or is eluding to the shadyness of all the white folks who make up the majority of rapmusic sales and their personality defects for listening to those rap lyrics he's talking about, it just seems like all of this talk about " black people by extension" is a distraction

[LoopStationZebra]

I'll listen to anything once.

But there's nothing wrong with a little generalization in life either. It helps to filter things out. I hate college rock. Who gives a shit if I might have liked the last song on Hootie's first album? It doesn't make up for the fact that the entire genre is hollow, dull, and makes me want to drill out my skull with a rusty drill bit.

Hip hop is a more than 30 year long tradition that encompasses a whole lot more music than "college rock."

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at there. The roots of college rock, or any kind of rock, run as long and as deep as anything else. College Rock>Hard Rock>Soft Rock>Country>Bluegrass>Blues>Classical>etc etc etc. Not necessarily in that order, lol. An equally long tradition to any form of popular music. Are you talking about the history, or genres that have been absorbed into Hip Hop?

[beats me]

thats because when they talk about dave mathews there not trying to discredit a whole genre or artform also when a small group of white people are complaining about another small group of white people who like dave mathews they usualy don't talk about shadyness or predjudice also there is none of that " by extension about black people" stuff that you quoted ^^^ which makes dave mathews a pretty bad example lol. anyway what is it that you actualy think about all of those white people that make up the majority of the public that pays for that rapmusic you are talking about?

I mean if the lyrics are retarded and you're saying that says alot about the listener but it doesn't seem like your talking about raps number 1 fans?

Dave Matthews is just the flavor of the moment but I would say even that is a dated reference, just no new comers to replace (that I'm aware of), but in that reference you might as well throw in the Grateful Dead and Phish fans. They all drink from the same fountain….basically the people that follow, figuratively and literally, traveling hippy jam bands. Would it be offensive to say these people also really enjoy camping and smoking pot?

As far as discrediting an entire genre, let's say Dave Matthew's is at the tip of the commercial success iceberg for his genre and somebody like Lil Wayne is at the same tip for Hip Hop. Aficionados of both these genres might despise these artists just as much as people who don't like the genre in general, but that still doesn't discount that these are the artists being blasted into our ears by the public at large.

As far as thinking rap lyrics are retarded, I've seen a ton of interviews of the Hip Hop fan on the street agreeing the lyrics are retarded or offensive, but at the same time they don't let it bother them.

This brings in l.m. saying he'd expect more from musicians when talking about Hip Hop. I think a lot of what people in general like about Hip Hop is the music behind the rapping, but IMO ever since Lil John hit the scene the music has taken a HUGE backseat to the rapping, it's almost as if they feel the music is an inconvenient necessity they just have to quickly slop together to deliver their message of whatever. Then came the over abuse of auto-tune and now they threw actual vocal talent out the window as well. Again, I'm talking about the stuff the masses are listening to, not us elitist musician types.

[starving student]

thats because when they talk about dave mathews there not trying to discredit a whole genre or artform also when a small group of white people are complaining about another small group of white people who like dave mathews they usualy don't talk about shadyness or predjudice also there is none of that " by extension about black people" stuff that you quoted ^^^ which makes dave mathews a pretty bad example lol. anyway what is it that you actualy think about all of those white people that make up the majority of the public that pays for that rapmusic you are talking about?

I mean if the lyrics are retarded and you're saying that says alot about the listener but it doesn't seem like your talking about raps number 1 fans?

Dave Matthews is just the flavor of the moment but I would say even that is a dated reference, just no new comers to replace (that I'm aware of), but in that reference you might as well throw in the Grateful Dead and Phish fans. They all drink from the same fountain….basically the people that follow, figuratively and literally, traveling hippy jam bands. Would it be offensive to say these people also really enjoy camping and smoking pot?

As far as discrediting an entire genre, let's say Dave Matthew's is at the tip of the commercial success iceberg for his genre and somebody like Lil Wayne is at the same tip for Hip Hop. Aficionados of both these genres might despise these artists just as much as people who don't like the genre in general, but that still doesn't discount that these are the artists being blasted into our ears by the public at large.

As far as thinking rap lyrics are retarded, I've seen a ton of interviews of the Hip Hop fan on the street agreeing the lyrics are retarded or offensive, but at the same time they don't let it bother them.

This brings in l.m. saying he'd expect more from musicians when talking about Hip Hop. I think a lot of what people in general like about Hip Hop is the music behind the rapping, but IMO ever since Lil John hit the scene the music has taken a HUGE backseat to the rapping, it's almost as if they feel the music is an inconvenient necessity they just have to quickly slop together to deliver their message of whatever. Then came the over abuse of auto-tune and now they threw actual vocal talent out the window as well. Again, I'm talking about the stuff the masses are listening to, not us elitist musician types.

ahh although you completely sidesteped my (mostly white people buy rapmusic and how does that fit into your argument basis about the listeners of rapmusic comment)
still i understand more of where you're coming from, do you know that most hiphop listeners feel exactly the opposite than you do regarding little john and the like, from what i've seen most people think that those type of artist throw the lyrics out the window and only focus on lyrics as an afterthought if at all. btw I never think of little john and hiphop at the same time

[beats me]

I'm not trying to sidestep or avoid questions. I just can't keep up with the pace of this thread (can anybody?).

I know my original post was very general and all-encompassing but I am mainly talking about the thug rap that a lot of people are blasting out their cars/houses/apartments. I rarely, if ever, hear hip hop being blasted that doesn't fit this profile. Obviously I'm not an authority on the subject but all I need to do is hear a track for about 10 seconds and you can tell where it's going lyrically.

On white people being the big consumer of Hip Hop, well, that has always confused me but I think that's just my own inability to shut out the lyrical content which obviously a large part of the population can do. I probably wouldn't have even started this thread if I could shut out the lyrical content. I guess in some ways I am segregating music based on the lyrics. Most other genres are benign or universal in their lyrics. A lot of Hip Hop is loaded with content white middle class America can't relate to, but scary to me are trying to force themselves to….and not in an observational or empathetic way.

[leisuremuffin]

I know my original post was very general and all-encompassing but I am mainly talking about the thug rap that a lot of people are blasting out their cars/houses/apartments. I rarely, if ever, hear hip hop being blasted that doesn't fit this profile. Obviously I'm not an authority on the subject but all I need to do is hear a track for about 10 seconds and you can tell where it's going lyrically.

On white people being the big consumer of Hip Hop, well, that has always confused me but I think that's just my own inability to shut out the lyrical content which obviously a large part of the population can do. I probably wouldn't have even started this thread if I could shut out the lyrical content. I guess in some ways I am segregating music based on the lyrics. Most other genres are benign or universal in their lyrics. A lot of Hip Hop is loaded with content white middle class America can't relate to, but scary to me are trying to force themselves to….and not in an observational or empathetic way.

Dude, i read Philip K Dick's science fiction novels because i like the narrative and the picture that is painted, i've never experienced the material in his books, but they still move me.

here's some rap with a shitload of gun play reference that i think is fucking amazing,
listen to this shit:

http://www.pp2g.tv/vYnl-ZHc_.aspx



I've never shot anyone, i've never stabbed anyone's brain with their nosebone, but this shit moves me. It's the narrative, vibe and flow. I'm not trying to separate the lyrics from the music, i don't think you can, without an mc you just have a 2bar loop. (but, on the music here from the perspective of an electronic musician it's pretty fucking sick. The stove sparking as the hi hat? amazing)



What's your favorite movie, beats? Is there any violence in it? How about your favorite book? do you understand the idea of being entertained by a fictional story?



Hip Hop music is music like any other. Why do you take it as 100% literal when you would never do the same thing with any other form of music or artform?




.lm.

[starving student]

I know my original post was very general and all-encompassing but I am mainly talking about the thug rap that a lot of people are blasting out their cars/houses/apartments. I rarely, if ever, hear hip hop being blasted that doesn't fit this profile. Obviously I'm not an authority on the subject but all I need to do is hear a track for about 10 seconds and you can tell where it's going lyrically.

On white people being the big consumer of Hip Hop, well, that has always confused me but I think that's just my own inability to shut out the lyrical content which obviously a large part of the population can do. I probably wouldn't have even started this thread if I could shut out the lyrical content. I guess in some ways I am segregating music based on the lyrics. Most other genres are benign or universal in their lyrics. A lot of Hip Hop is loaded with content white middle class America can't relate to, but scary to me are trying to force themselves to….and not in an observational or empathetic way.

Dude, i read Philip K Dick's science fiction novels because i like the narrative and the picture that is painted, i've never experienced the material in his books, but they still move me.

here's some rap with a shitload of gun play reference that i think is fucking amazing,
listen to this shit:

http://www.pp2g.tv/vYnl-ZHc_.aspx



I've never shot anyone, i've never stabbed anyone's brain with their nosebone, but this shit moves me. It's the narrative, vibe and flow. I'm not trying to separate the lyrics from the music, i don't think you can, without an mc you just have a 2bar loop. (but, on the music here from the perspective of an electronic musician it's pretty fucking sick. The stove sparking as the hi hat? amazing)



What's your favorite movie, beats? Is there any violence in it? How about your favorite book? do you understand the idea of being entertained by a fictional story?



Hip Hop music is music like any other. Why do you take it as 100% literal when you would never do the same thing with any other form of music or artform?




.lm.

sex drugs and rock and roll man, it's like who do you think fancy hotels are more afraid to see coming rappers or rock bands haha



@beatsme: "On white people being the big consumer of Hip Hop, well, that has always confused me" that's got to be one of the funniest things I've read on this forum beatsme, white people aren't using some super power to shut it out their singing along and even white groups of other genres are making cover songs of gangsta shit all over the place, and ironically everyone is saying it's so artistic

[starving student]

i guess for me it just comes down to this, everything is either in support of love or hatred at the end of the day and L.Muffin is being very generous by letting alot of people claim ignorance but in my opinion
we all have a first grade education and thats all you need to know whether you are trying to divide people or bring them together or whether you are in support of division or unity being at the root of your core ideas and choices, so i believe it's all about choice and I believe that division is fundamentally wrong so whenever I encounter something that I can see that the root of that something is divisive or in support of division I know that that is not the right choice for me. I think that goes along with what L.Muffin is saying about judging whole genres of music no matter what genre it is if you start out like that then it says alot about where you're coming from and the choices you've made about where you want your destination to be ie: someplace divided.

[LoopStationZebra]

i guess for me it just comes down to this, everything is either in support of love or hatred at the end of the day and L.Muffin is being very generous by letting alot of people claim ignorance but in my opinion
we all have a first grade education and thats all you need to know whether you are trying to divide people or bring them together or whether you are in support of division or unity being at the root of your core ideas and choices, so i believe it's all about choice and I believe that division is fundamentally wrong so whenever I encounter something that I can see that the root of that something is divisive or in support of division I know that that is not the right choice for me. I think that goes along with what L.Muffin is saying about judging whole genres of music no matter what genre it is if you start out like that then it says alot about where you're coming from and the choices you've made about where you want your destination to be ie: someplace divided.

Everything is either in support of love or hatred? For me, it's all shades of grey.

Oh, and.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN9-K0aZXRg

HOT.