OT dj discussion
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mike holiday
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OT dj discussion
hmmm...Do you think computer dj's will help Dj's who MIX records stand out again?
Even though I've heard some very nice DJ set made with Live and other programs, when I go to a party I prefer to see the guy using the turntables (better if three).
Would you compare a jeff millls performance with three decks and a 909 with a guy using the mouse only?
Or the Decks, FX & 909(& SH101, & sampler, &cc) performance of some years ago of richie hawtin?
Me not, but I don't mean here that people DJing wiht laptops are bad, it's just my taste.
Would you compare a jeff millls performance with three decks and a 909 with a guy using the mouse only?
Or the Decks, FX & 909(& SH101, & sampler, &cc) performance of some years ago of richie hawtin?
Me not, but I don't mean here that people DJing wiht laptops are bad, it's just my taste.
Re: OT dj discussion
mike holiday wrote:hmmm...Do you think computer dj's will help Dj's who MIX records stand out again?
IMHO they're two different animals.
For me, nothing can replace the hand/record/needle/mixer interface, where the only latency issues are ear-hand and RAM limitations are described as #of drinks... javascript:emoticon(':?')
However, the amount of time you have to plan and edit, as well as being able to utilize any track you can steal, borrow, or buy and stuff into your computer, gives you an infinity of options as a laptop dj.
I suppose one way I would describe it, in terms of techno mixing, would be that the tightness of a laptop set would have to be contrasted with the actual "liveness" and visual entertainment of someone chucking records around.
Most importantly- Each to their own!
Do what makes you happy!
Remember, it's supposed to be fun...
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Re: OT dj discussion
are dj's meant to "stand out" in the first place?mike holiday wrote:hmmm...Do you think computer dj's will help Dj's who MIX records stand out again?
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mike holiday
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Re: OT dj discussion
are dj's meant to "stand out" in the first place? [quote][quote]
nahh...but it's nice when their mixes do
and in america it seems that shit is lost
these days im a little out of touch as iv ran as far north as i could.
[quote][quote]nahh...but it's nice when their mixes do
and in america it seems that shit is lost
these days im a little out of touch as iv ran as far north as i could.
Last edited by mike holiday on Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
let's just hope the ears of the guy with the midi controller aren't also blownAdamJay wrote:i would! the guy using the mouse wouldn't be as sloppy sounding.minimal wrote: Would you compare a jeff millls performance with three decks and a 909 with a guy using the mouse only?
though i prefer he use a midi controller of some kind instead.
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::mic-minimal::
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uh oh, lets not start re-labeling.::mic-minimal:: wrote:yeah I think its two different animals too.
laptop = remixer
turntables= dj
personally I love shows where they're working together
dj = disc jockey. one who plays recorded music from discs. vinyl discs, compact discs, hard discs...
. the interface is only a control device. from cassette decks to computers, its all included.discuss...
i'd like to perform dj-oriented sets with Live, but i view it as more remixing than dj'ing. if you're going to use a laptop for dj'ing, i think you should either 1) use it as a huge record bag a la Final Scratch or 2) push the creative boundaries so far that calling it 'dj'ing' would be too limiting.
anyone have one of those Grex controllers? the demos made it seem like a great, intuitive dj-oriented interface for Live. i know there were a lot of complaints about unfilled orders a while back - dunno whether anything got resolved or not.
anyone have one of those Grex controllers? the demos made it seem like a great, intuitive dj-oriented interface for Live. i know there were a lot of complaints about unfilled orders a while back - dunno whether anything got resolved or not.
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::mic-minimal::
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Komplex wrote:uh oh, lets not start re-labeling.::mic-minimal:: wrote:yeah I think its two different animals too.
laptop = remixer
turntables= dj
personally I love shows where they're working together
dj = disc jockey. one who plays recorded music from discs. vinyl discs, compact discs, hard discs...
discuss...
then what is a 'remixer'?
i've nothing against playing beats with a laptop, I do it myself. but I have no idea why people with laptops want to be called djs instead of remixers.
a dj in the studio is a dj, a dj playing live is a dj
a remixer in the studio is a remixer a remixer playing live is....a remixer.
for the love of Live
i kinda agree with ::mic-minimal:: here.
labels can be stifling some time, but with people like Surgeon and dare i say Sasha using Live to do what basically is Live remixing - its not fair to call them DJs.
some folks equate the word "remixer" with something better or worse than a "dj", and this is usually when they find the word offensive, or at the very least not representative of what they are doing.
But i do think of what a DJ does as being a little more limited by the means of Controlling the source material, compared to someone who is using Live who has much more control of the source material. What i mean is, mixing 2 tracks together isn't remixing. But when you can mangle/loop/reverse/chop-up/etc. that source material IN REALTIME, well then my friend i think you are a remixer. That doesn't make you any better or worse than a DJ, it simply makes you a remixer. Just do what you do well.
I was really put off by what Sasha has been doing with Live, but when i heard someone else do it with music i actually ENJOY, thus making music i enjoy. Then it all started to make a little more sense. a good example would be any recent set from dj-surgeon.com or NCW's "Spazz Me!" mix: LINK
yea, as much as i hate labels, i think the term "remixer" really does help define what people are doing with Ableton these days. and it even promotes ableton when you call it Live Remix
But mostly i like it because it helps define and preserve what i personally feel is the definition of a DJ.
labels can be stifling some time, but with people like Surgeon and dare i say Sasha using Live to do what basically is Live remixing - its not fair to call them DJs.
some folks equate the word "remixer" with something better or worse than a "dj", and this is usually when they find the word offensive, or at the very least not representative of what they are doing.
But i do think of what a DJ does as being a little more limited by the means of Controlling the source material, compared to someone who is using Live who has much more control of the source material. What i mean is, mixing 2 tracks together isn't remixing. But when you can mangle/loop/reverse/chop-up/etc. that source material IN REALTIME, well then my friend i think you are a remixer. That doesn't make you any better or worse than a DJ, it simply makes you a remixer. Just do what you do well.
I was really put off by what Sasha has been doing with Live, but when i heard someone else do it with music i actually ENJOY, thus making music i enjoy. Then it all started to make a little more sense. a good example would be any recent set from dj-surgeon.com or NCW's "Spazz Me!" mix: LINK
yea, as much as i hate labels, i think the term "remixer" really does help define what people are doing with Ableton these days. and it even promotes ableton when you call it Live Remix
But mostly i like it because it helps define and preserve what i personally feel is the definition of a DJ.
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::mic-minimal::
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AdamJay wrote: But i do think of what a DJ does as being a little more limited by the means of Controlling the source material, compared to someone who is using Live who has much more control of the source material. What i mean is, mixing 2 tracks together isn't remixing. But when you can mangle/loop/reverse/chop-up/etc. that source material IN REALTIME, well then my friend i think you are a remixer. That doesn't make you any better or worse than a DJ, it simply makes you a remixer. Just do what you do well.
yea, as much as i hate labels, i think the term "remixer" really does help define what people are doing with Ableton these days. and it even promotes ableton when you call it Live Remix
But mostly i like it because it helps define and preserve what i personally feel is the definition of a DJ.
these are my sentiments exactly, labels don't have to be bad, specially when they create more of an understanding of what's going on. and a dj cannot come close to the control that a remixer using live has.....now a 'turntablist' that's a whole nother story
remixer
dj
turntablist
3 different things..... don't fear diversity embrace it...
for the love of Live
for some reason sunday morning apparently = rant:
on the one hand, i grew up in detroit and in the middle of all that. i was at the music institute, listened to the wizard everyday, remember hawtin as richie rich. growing up around some of the best djs in the world i had a really specific idea of what djing was. still do. dj bone is a friend -- every time i see him i know THAT'S djing. it's an art and craft that will never be less than that. and as we all know it's lightyears away from just playing records.
on the other hand, the whole thing with djing was born out of, as is all art, the limits of technology. that's a lofty bs-sounding statement, but think about it. whether it's the transition from church walls to canvas, sticks and rocks to brushes, tape to pro tools... all art is a function of the available technology. beat matching was born out of necessity, which then created the "third record" and the entire dj culture. once created, that art form will never disappear. the same way some people hang on to their preferred way of expressing their art regardless of technological innovations. the classical violinist who would puke on the idea of electrifying his instrument, people who think that since techno is not guitar, bass, and drums then it's not real music, etc..
however.... regardless of whether or not you like the style of music he plays (i personally love it) i don't think you can find a single person involved in this culture who would accuse surgeon of not being a skilled dj. apart from the amazing music he makes, he made his living as a 'real' dj for a long time and he was (is) world class. then he got into final scratch. then in short order he realized that with ableton he can achieve so many of the things he was always striving for while djing, previously playing a lot of custom edit acetates and whatnot. now he travels with a 12" powerbook and midi controller. ruskin does the same thing and he can kick the ass of 3 decks anyday.
it's not a shortcut but rather the most current limitation of technology that enables these guys to stretch themselves artistically. or maybe in the case of live performance, enables them to push the minds of those listening. by the very nature of us being on a site like this, we're predisposed to want to understand and debate how the thing we just heard and know to be previously impossible was made possible... but think about the people who don't care to trainspot it all, or the venue that gives no visual access to what's going on (think UR performing behind a curtain...) it's simply a matter of what comes out of the speakers. i thought what adam said about his opinion of sasha and live was ironic and spot on.. i feel exactly the same way. i could give a shit what sasha is doing b/c to my ears he's still playing crap music. but mr. chid and others... ok, whole new world. certainly there are plenty of ppl who feel the same way about sasha.
i mentioned bone earlier not to name drop but b/c despite whatever i may think about laptop performance, bone is a dj's dj. give that guy 3 decks and get out of the way cuz he's going to melt some heads. and i know that he doesn't look too favorably upon any iteration of djing beyond decks and vinyl. however, another original detroit head, super-talented dj, and good friend of bone's doesn't feel that way: claude young. it's all just what you prefer.
i have a hard time calling people who play out with ableton "remixers" simply cuz i assume they probably did most of the remixing ahead of time. but that's just semantics and pretty much irrelevant. while true, it sounds more hippy-dippy than i want but: it's all about the music, man. and just like if i go to a photo exhibition i'm not asking whether or not the photographer used a old school large format slr or a digital camera, if bone and surgeon are both playing i'll bust my ass to go see them both. and then maybe discuss the hows later on.. =)
on the one hand, i grew up in detroit and in the middle of all that. i was at the music institute, listened to the wizard everyday, remember hawtin as richie rich. growing up around some of the best djs in the world i had a really specific idea of what djing was. still do. dj bone is a friend -- every time i see him i know THAT'S djing. it's an art and craft that will never be less than that. and as we all know it's lightyears away from just playing records.
on the other hand, the whole thing with djing was born out of, as is all art, the limits of technology. that's a lofty bs-sounding statement, but think about it. whether it's the transition from church walls to canvas, sticks and rocks to brushes, tape to pro tools... all art is a function of the available technology. beat matching was born out of necessity, which then created the "third record" and the entire dj culture. once created, that art form will never disappear. the same way some people hang on to their preferred way of expressing their art regardless of technological innovations. the classical violinist who would puke on the idea of electrifying his instrument, people who think that since techno is not guitar, bass, and drums then it's not real music, etc..
however.... regardless of whether or not you like the style of music he plays (i personally love it) i don't think you can find a single person involved in this culture who would accuse surgeon of not being a skilled dj. apart from the amazing music he makes, he made his living as a 'real' dj for a long time and he was (is) world class. then he got into final scratch. then in short order he realized that with ableton he can achieve so many of the things he was always striving for while djing, previously playing a lot of custom edit acetates and whatnot. now he travels with a 12" powerbook and midi controller. ruskin does the same thing and he can kick the ass of 3 decks anyday.
it's not a shortcut but rather the most current limitation of technology that enables these guys to stretch themselves artistically. or maybe in the case of live performance, enables them to push the minds of those listening. by the very nature of us being on a site like this, we're predisposed to want to understand and debate how the thing we just heard and know to be previously impossible was made possible... but think about the people who don't care to trainspot it all, or the venue that gives no visual access to what's going on (think UR performing behind a curtain...) it's simply a matter of what comes out of the speakers. i thought what adam said about his opinion of sasha and live was ironic and spot on.. i feel exactly the same way. i could give a shit what sasha is doing b/c to my ears he's still playing crap music. but mr. chid and others... ok, whole new world. certainly there are plenty of ppl who feel the same way about sasha.
i mentioned bone earlier not to name drop but b/c despite whatever i may think about laptop performance, bone is a dj's dj. give that guy 3 decks and get out of the way cuz he's going to melt some heads. and i know that he doesn't look too favorably upon any iteration of djing beyond decks and vinyl. however, another original detroit head, super-talented dj, and good friend of bone's doesn't feel that way: claude young. it's all just what you prefer.
i have a hard time calling people who play out with ableton "remixers" simply cuz i assume they probably did most of the remixing ahead of time. but that's just semantics and pretty much irrelevant. while true, it sounds more hippy-dippy than i want but: it's all about the music, man. and just like if i go to a photo exhibition i'm not asking whether or not the photographer used a old school large format slr or a digital camera, if bone and surgeon are both playing i'll bust my ass to go see them both. and then maybe discuss the hows later on.. =)