8 bar dead end

[danzel]

hello..
When i'm making a track I like to get my ideas together in session view. I try and and have at least a couple of different sections going on and try and line up some scenes if possible.
I then hit record, trigger the clips to record it all into arrange and continue to edit.
I love this idead and it works great sometimes, but often i end up adding quite a few tracks of drum racks synths and samplers all to play within an 8 bar loop and then just get stuck in that groove not being able to move it on much. When i try and get a second section together because everything is in tune to the first eight bars i have trouble finding a way to get changes together that don't clash. Is the way to avoid this by planning the different sections early on before adding too much? It always seems that the nicest sounding 8 bar sections i do are the hardest to progress.
Cheers

[DJDJ]

There are lots of ways around this.

One thing I'll do is make too many parts to sound good all playing together in one loop, but make sure they all fit my core groove nicely. Then make new scenes by trying out the parts in different combos that work well together and record it in.
Then, all I have to do is find nice ways to make it flow well from bit to bit.

Don't be afraid to write in arrange view either! just copy that stuff out, and make your first part groove, morph, and flow until it suggests a new part-- then go back to session view and make the new part.

[Nick the Zombie]

I like DJDJ's idea of making more parts than will practically fit in one loop, and then choosing from those when you're trying to lay out the track. Also, I find writing in arrange view a necessity for my way of working, otherwise I get stuck in "loop-test" mode. Break it down into two issues: A) You want to have multiple parts of the track that you can transition between smoothly, and B) the transitions, themselves. If you're stuck with a great loop that won't go anywhere, it pays to switch to a micro-editing mindset: Put two different loops next to one another, and then write transitions in the arrange view, adding bits of parameter modulation and chopping up notes until it all makes sense. What you are left with is two loops and a solid transition, which you can then consider a chunk of your track that is finished. If you do that a few times, you'll have multiple pieces done that you can then fit together into an even bigger piece, etc. The whole time, you'll naturally go back over what you did before and change it in light of what you did later, and eventually you'll have a track put together. That last part is the hardest one for me, because a lot of big decisions begin to present themselves.

Also, and this is a bit of a tangent but it's related: Don't worry about perfection or any of that nonsense. Any track or song that you write is a snapshot of your tastes and abilities at that point in time, so just focus on honing your skills and completing something. Thinking this way will help you move on when the part you're working on sounds good rather than dwelling on it.

EDIT: This is post 666 for me. I feel like I should make a speech or something, but I'll just revel in it instead.

[danzel]

cheers lads, if i can get this cracked.. well its gonna be properly mint basically

[DJDJ]

I like DJDJ's idea of making more parts than will practically fit in one loop, and then choosing from those when you're trying to lay out the track.

Gotta give credit where credits due: I learned this from Lorin Bassnectar. It's the core of how he arranges.

Congrats on your # 666!

[Nick the Zombie]

Nice one, thanks for dropping that tip here! I'm actually feeling inspired to do some composition myself after reading that.

[Nick the Zombie]

Gotta give credit where credits due: I learned this from Lorin Bassnectar. It's the core of how he arranges.
Congrats on your # 666!

Regardless, thanks for dropping that tip here! I'm actually feeling inspired to do some composition myself after reading that.

[moodles]

I've run into this same problem. Here's my solution:

Make several copies of each of the clips in your loop. Go into each copied clip and do some editing, you can make subtle variations or big changes, whatever appeals to you. Start mix and matching all of your clips in different combinations in a series of scenes. Try ordering your scenes in sequence that makes sense to you. Jam through your scenes and clips while recording to Arrangement. Then edit and tweak in Arrangement view as needed.

[Nick the Zombie]

I've run into this same problem. Here's my solution:

Make several copies of each of the clips in your loop. Go into each copied clip and do some editing, you can make subtle variations or big changes, whatever appeals to you. Start mix and matching all of your clips in different combinations in a series of scenes. Try ordering your scenes in sequence that makes sense to you. Jam through your scenes and clips while recording to Arrangement. Then edit and tweak in Arrangement view as needed.

I like this approach a lot. It goes a long way toward eliminating the dead-end that often occurs when planning how a tracks is going to progress.

[moodles]

The neat thing about this method is that when I start copying and tweaking clips and then trying out different scenes, the shape of the track seems to reveal itself, where before I was banging my head against the wall wondering if this loop I've been listening to over and over is going to end up as something interesting or not.

It's like you are unlocking the hidden potential in your loop that had been hiding just out of view.

[porfiry]

This is the most useful thread I've read in here in weeks, so facking *BUMP*

I've been having this problem constantly...it seems to go with the territory a bit with Live. It's so easy to get some goddamn loop going that sounds like a song, and then get mired down for like a month in mixing it out and embellishing it, not knowing what to do next. All the songs I've actually finished in this year or so I've had Live, have been ones that I had all laid out with my guitar before going in. Which kind of defeats the purpose of such inspiring software.

All excellent suggestions, and anyone else please feel free to pile on.

[DJDJ]

I've run into this same problem. Here's my solution:

Make several copies of each of the clips in your loop. Go into each copied clip and do some editing, you can make subtle variations or big changes, whatever appeals to you. Start mix and matching all of your clips in different combinations in a series of scenes. Try ordering your scenes in sequence that makes sense to you. Jam through your scenes and clips while recording to Arrangement. Then edit and tweak in Arrangement view as needed.

tasty suggestion. Will try!