OT How many of you believe in aliens?

[Spikee]

As it's been said already, the statistical probability is enormous for there to be life elsewhere in the universe. The Drake Equation is one of the more accepted ways of calculating how many intelligent societies there may be, which can be found here: http://www.fennzart.com/planetarysystem ... ation.html

If we were to ever come into contact with another intelligent society, we would have to figure out how to move faster than the speed of light, since even moving at 186,282 miles a second gets us nearly nowhere in terms of reaching other stars. Vega, our closest star would take 35 years to reach at this velocity so unless a major breakthrough occurs in space travel, don't count on anything extraordinary in our lifetimes.

Whatever the case may be, life or not, we're absolutely alone for the moment. Maybe in a couple of centuries after we've sufficiently flooded space with radio waves will another civilization finally be in a position to notice us, and perhaps they'll pay us a visit. But for now it's too early to speculate what will happen.

[UKRuss]

Yep, the speed of light is the obvious stumbling block. In fact we can't even get anywhere near that speed due to us and our rockets always likely to have mass of some sort and mass being the thing that means you can never travle at the speed of light, well only theoretically.

What is interesting is that these other intelligent alien societies may have existed millions of years ago and as such any radio waves they may have transmitted would have reached us by now in the same way that light from their stars has reached us and yet....nothing.

Similarly, by the time anyone receives our radio waves and decides to come and investigate us...we'll be long gone.

All this is underlined massively by the fact that everything we think we know about the universe, is just theoretical, of course.

The final thing I find strange is this obsession with lifeforms on other worlds (although I accept it is natural curiosity to consider whether we are alone) when in fact we discover new species on our own planet daily and yet we do not consider them 'alien' in any way. In fact nobody cares on a daily basis how many new things we find on our own planet. Nobody remembers the names of all ten men who stood on the moon, normally only the first two and then at a push in the majority of cases. The fact is we really just don't care as much as we think we do.

In the realms of possibility it would be phenomenal if we could send a probe to the bottom of the oceans of Europa and find life in our own solar system...now THAT would be massive!

Just ramblin'

[DrXparaMental]

I am absolutely CERTAIN that the UFO phenomenon is indicative of either (a) Alien (other than humanity as we understand it) Technology, or (b) a form of human based technology exists that is completely outside the scope of popular, or common, scientific understanding. Bottom line: It's technological and either way it's real. One would have to live in a dream world not to be aware of the irrefutable nature of the evidence representing the phenomenon itself.

I am very into this whole thing and am pretty damn skeptical. Even so after having a very real significant UFO sighting experience myself.

[forge]

Yep, the speed of light is the obvious stumbling block.

I don't see it as a stumbling block so much because I think the only possible way there could ever be any contact between inter stellar civilisations would be if there is some property of the universe unknown to us that allows us to jump through space instantaneously. If there is only the type of A to B physical travel that we are used to then I think there is pretty much no chance of ever meeting any other beings. I mean I guess maybe there could be some civilisations that had to leave their own planet for some reason and have been drifting for longer than we've evolved from apes, but like you say, the best chance of seeing in our lives is like you say, bacteria or worms or something on the outer planet's moons. Unless things like the LHC open up a whole new area of physics that leads to some kind of sub-atomic teleportation.

To get a little meta-physical about it, in one of the Carlos Castaneda books he describes a time when he was standing on top of a mountain with the two shamans and one of them suddenly vanished then reappeared on a different mountain across from them and waved to them. I've also heard similar stories involving Tasmanian Aborigines. Whether or not those books or stories are real, I kind of like the idea that the shamans of some indigenous cultures might have known how the universe works better than the most respected physicists and knew how to control it without the need for 27 km particle accelerators.

[brightonalex]

Would life on other planets be older than life on Earth, or younger?

Because if Darwin's theory of evolution is correct, then it would apply to other planets wouldn't it?

As time goes back infinitely far, then any form of life could be trillions of years older than ours - so why would it be more likely that the life form would be a worm or a germ or something, rather than something trillions of years ahead of us?

Maybe we're the worms.

[LoopStationZebra]

... if there is some property of the universe unknown to us that allows us to jump through space instantaneously. I

Hehe. Yes, the speed of light barrier. Conveniently, Einstein left a nice loophole in his equations which allowed for the folding or bending of space - provided, of course, that you have an enormous amount of energy to do so. Others have come along- like Hawking - and elaborated. The current line of thinking is that anti-matter is the only known source that could produce that much power. I can't remember how much energy the stuff produces, but a teaspoon is enough to devastate a city or something.

In order to fold, bend, or warp (hence the 'warp drives' in Star Trek) space, you're going to need to generate a massive amount of gravity within a controlled field or bubble. An anti-matter reaction could be used to generate the required amount of energy to do so.

Once the reaction occurs, space is warped. Getting all of this to occur within a controlled environment is key - hence the 'warp field' of Star Trek fame. Very cool stuff. The anti-matter engines are fired up, space is folded, a warp bubble is created, and you are on your way.

The challenge comes in the creation, handling, and containment of anti-matter. It's costly beyond belief and the most dangerous substance we've ever handled. But anti-matter research has come a long way in just 20 short years or so. Imagine what it will be in 100years? It's thought that anti-matter WILL be the means by which we completely ween ourselves off of all other types of energy sources. Providing we don't blow up the planet or create a giant worm-hole that rips open the fabric of space/time.

[abort]

Space is pie

Our space could be a small partial living deep within the fabric of someone's armrest.

[LoopStationZebra]

lol. If the vastness of space weren't enough, we could get into all the exciting new theories about parallel universes and multi-verses.

It's also funny how we approach aliens (and their mode of transportation) with such limited 'Earth-centric' points of view. Big metallic spaceships and whatnot. heh.

Lovecraft was a genius. He was the first sci-fi writer to imaging that there are creatures out there that may live and travel IN space - with no mechanical device required. That they have evolved on an utterly different (and therefore horrifying) level than anything on earth. So insanely different that merely looking at them would cause you to go mad - simply because there is no imaginable point of reference. Awesome.

[b0unce]

To get a little meta-physical about it, in one of the Carlos Castaneda books he describes a time when he was standing on top of a mountain with the two shamans and one of them suddenly vanished then reappeared on a different mountain across from them and waved to them.

[DrXparaMental]

lol. If the vastness of space weren't enough, we could get into all the exciting new theories about parallel universes and multi-verses.

It's also funny how we approach aliens (and their mode of transportation) with such limited 'Earth-centric' points of view. Big metallic spaceships and whatnot. heh.

Lovecraft was a genius. He was the first sci-fi writer to imaging that there are creatures out there that may live and travel IN space - with no mechanical device required. That they have evolved on an utterly different (and therefore horrifying) level than anything on earth. So insanely different that merely looking at them would cause you to go mad - simply because there is no imaginable point of reference. Awesome.

No question. This is a very short condensed speculation in a hypothesis that I have. There is no question that science itself is bad ass stuff. There is something happening this very moment that is beyond amazing with respect to evolution and a specific affirmation of the Darwinian school of thought.

It's interesting to note that the United States successfully developed, tested and put into use, atomic "engines" or power sources for space travel in the late 60s. When is the last time you heard of atomic based flight and space travel technology? Stealth technology existed and is well documented as being in working order in the early 70s.

The Germans were working on "field technologies" and "anti gravity" technologies during WWII. We scooped those scientists up and brought 90% of them to the USA after WWII. They began work in the southwest region of the USA. Very near Roswell. (duh!)

In science today, there is no more interesting or cutting edge theories than those that have been put forth, and PROVED on paper, within the realms of Quantum Physics and Cosmology. We know that there are multiple dimensions all around us. In fact, there is a very distinct and strong possibility that there are in fact "parallel universes" connected to one another via back to back "worm holes".

As mentioned formerly in this little post, private r&d technology based companies can and do keep secrets. Is it not possible that we ourselves have been developing and using technologies that utilize some of these Quantum principles?

The real question for the long term UFO researcher is based in recorded documentations that have been historically kept via various cultures that describe what we observe as "UFOs" to the "T". This is a HUGE quandary that more so points to a separate hypothetical validation for an alternate form of intelligence being responsible for this type of technology. The question becomes a pure speculation at this point. This being in that we can also well imagine our own human species, as reaching that evolutionary stage within our technological development, where dimensional manipulation and transport means become a working reality for us as well.

Here is a tiny look at something I have been mulling around for the last few years. Could it be that we as a species have completely misperceived the sheer vastness of our native natural environment? What if the Earth itself as an environment were dimensionally specific to several highly intelligent species? The human species being just one of those. Could it be that what we call "aliens" are in fact longer term residents of the Earth than ourselves? Perhaps long before before mankind stopped dwelling in caves, this alternate native species, specific to it's own Earth bound dimension, developed the technology to come and go from the dimensional aspect that we identify as our normal environmental occupancy, much as we would via a submarine in the ocean. The dimensions that are now being cataloged and theorized about via Quantum Physics and Cosmology may possibly be these beings natural home right here on Earth.

Just some thoughts.

[Tone Deft]

omfg this is what happens when 'artists' try to talk science. utter failure.

wtf do you mean by 'atomic engines'?? do you know in what way nuclear reactors are used for propulsion? do you know what quantum mechanics even means??

mentioning Carlos Casteneda in any thread like this is just retarded. it's beyond mentioning Hitler in any context.

[glitchrock-buddha]

What do you guys reckon about the "reply" that was found as a crop formation years back, which was supposed to be an answer to message we sent out, with our number system (decimal), our genetic info, the shape of our body, etc. The one that came back was very similar, decimal system, similar shape (bigger head), similar DNA but triple helix and more complex etc.

Someone fuckin' with us? The thing is about these crop circles is they are scientifically baffling. In the non-hoax ones, there is the issue with the elongated nodes at a specific angle, while the stems unbroken and the plants still alive. Yet the soil composition has an altered mineral composition which apparently is usually indicative of intense pressure like in sedimentary rock.

And then there's the Mayan Tzolkin calender showing up in crops, new geometric theories that have come out of some of the other formations etc etc...

There's never been any decent explanation of these things, but there are so many possibilities. Earthly technology made to distract us by some very rich people? Other dimensional beings who are not from far away but from right on top of us who can travel between planes? Aliens from far away?

I dunno. Anyone have any juicy info on this shit? I find the crop circle stuff very interesting, mainly because it's just so frequently occurring and happens in a very short time frame. And yet somehow it's not in the mainstream focus at all. It's the most baffling, yet regularly occurring phenomena with only a few people looking into it. Hundreds of these things happen in a summer. There should be a full blown investigation as to how.

[Machinesworking]

True, there are fools everywhere.

I suppose my stand point, on a serious level, isn't that US citizens are more or less gullible but that there must be some very interesting socio political reasons through US history as to why these stories, films etc. evolve.

For example, the situation with alien abduction stories is not the same in Nigeria, or Outer Mongolia ( as far as I know)

It's interesting is all, whether you believe or not.

Honestly, there's a lot of compiled information from the various psychiatric fields that points to blocked childhood molestation as the root cause for abduction stories. Vague memories of relatives violating adolescent trust are in some cases reinvented as aliens. I'm sure in Nigeria or outer Mongolia the same adults with the same violations of trust have invented less science fiction based explanations that cover up this travesty. It's the explanation that although the least fun, makes the most sense. Think about it, if an alien race is advanced enough to break the speed of light, they can certainly have a version of Electromagnetic Resonance Imaging that breaks down the various chemicals and organs in an organism from a spaceship without ever even touching the creature.

There were a series of cold war movies based in some respects on the idea of alien invasion that definitely pointed to some ideology that made people into slaves etc. Invasion of the Body Snatchers is the obvious example of this.

[Machinesworking]

mentioning Carlos Casteneda in any thread like this is just retarded. it's beyond mentioning Hitler in any context.

Agreed Hitler is a worst case scenario, and Casteneda is modern mythology, with no relation at all to science. Personally I think people cling to Casteneda in any thread about borderline science in an attempt to make sense of their own limitations intellectually on subjects they don't understand. I can truthfully and honestly say I can't begin to understand Quantum physic or mechanics, and barely know why they say physics and mechanics at different times, even after reading up on it numerous times! but I'm not about to pretend that I do, or to reference new age movies in an attempt to make it metaphysical.

[DrXparaMental]

omfg this is what happens when 'artists' try to talk science. utter failure.

wtf do you mean by 'atomic engines'?? do you know in what way nuclear reactors are used for propulsion? do you know what quantum mechanics even means??

mentioning Carlos Casteneda in any thread like this is just retarded. it's beyond mentioning Hitler in any context.

You 'ole troll you.

Careful there bud, I may know a LOT more than you think I know.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/space/c04rover.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/guided-mis ... unit-parts

Do you perhaps mean "Quantum Physics"?