Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Swordfish
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:12 am

Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Swordfish » Sun May 24, 2009 11:15 am

Hi
Ive suspected this for a while but Ive just done a test and made certain - lives consolidate feature adds a fade to audio files. Auto fades are off in the prefs. Warping is off. Can somebody tell me how to stop this annoying (softening) behaviour in Live 8.02. I like the attacks of my drum hits and they are dissapearing! This is a problem and it definitely reduces the impact of drums if you work in audio.

unfortunately I dont know how to post images up here - but I'll try to explain a test you can do. Its easy.

Get a drum hit with a nice clicky attack. Try a kick.
Place it on an audio track.
Turn warping off on that sample.
Check the fades are off (Show fades, reset fades)
Turn "create fades" off in prefs.
Zoom in and trim nice and close to the sample. Nice and tight. (Don't cut the attack of your sample off though)
Now make a duplicate of that track.
Go back to your original hit, select it, and consolidate.
Note how your transient is now gone. Live has created a fade where you don't want one!
In case you need proof, add a utility plugin to the second, duplicate track - use the "invert" preset.
Play both tracks. You should hear nothing - but instead you hear the attack transient which is now gone in your consolidated file.

Is there a way to stop this?

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by 3dot... » Sun May 24, 2009 11:44 am

shit man...
You're right!!
it's the same for either consolidated or rendered clip...

... not good...not good at all ...

:evil: :cry:
Image

Khazul
Posts: 3185
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Khazul » Sun May 24, 2009 12:08 pm

Ive noticed that too.

Only fix that seem to work is giving up and loading hits into a sampler.
Nothing to see here - move along!

djsynchro
Posts: 7471
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:06 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by djsynchro » Sun May 24, 2009 12:14 pm

Well spotted... always listen with the old ears!

I can think of 2 workarounds:
- Render to a new track
- (If it's possible) move the start point of an audio clip slightly before the beat (1/64th or 1/128th something like that) so the crossfade happens earlier)

Thanks for pointing it out!

Swordfish
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:12 am

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Swordfish » Sun May 24, 2009 12:17 pm

I was was wondering why the first kick drum of each bar sounded different....Im glad im not going crazy - the Abe's need to fix this...!

timothyallan
Posts: 5788
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by timothyallan » Sun May 24, 2009 12:41 pm

This is why Live sounds warmer than most DAW's :)


actually no, this is bad.

tw1nstates
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:00 pm

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by tw1nstates » Sun May 24, 2009 12:46 pm

Turn off the fade button for each audio clip.

That should sort it.
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

tw1nstates
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:00 pm

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by tw1nstates » Sun May 24, 2009 12:48 pm

Oops, you said turn off fades.

Are you sure you have done that for each clip? It sounds like that's whats happening. I can cehck right now but I haven't had live doing this to me. And I use transients on audio files to get stuff grooving together so i'd notice it if that was the case (i don't use warped files either)
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

Swordfish
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:12 am

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Swordfish » Sun May 24, 2009 12:51 pm

if I could post the images from my test I would...

fades are off in prefs.

Fades are reset on clips.

tw1nstates-check your files closely. try the test - its really noticeable.

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by 3dot... » Sun May 24, 2009 1:05 pm

Khazul wrote:Ive noticed that too.

Only fix that seem to work is giving up and loading hits into a sampler.
this is happening with rendered audio...(consolidate/freeze/render)
Image

Swordfish
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:12 am

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Swordfish » Sun May 24, 2009 1:08 pm

Is thtis happening to people on PC too? (Im on a Mac)

Angstrom
Posts: 14661
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Angstrom » Sun May 24, 2009 1:23 pm

interesting subject, and you seem to be correct. In fact you can see it doing the bad thang while you drop a sample into arrangment. The 'ghostly' drag and drop version looks fine and once it is dropped the kick transient is faded.
This topic needs to be in bugs and problems.

It seems to me that the problem lies with the new fade/crossfade system, because when you 'reset fade' the supposed 'non-fade' actually has more fade than it should.

I will make a post in L8 Beta bugs with images

Angstrom
Posts: 14661
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by Angstrom » Sun May 24, 2009 1:27 pm

Bug topic created, with images

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=115891

BTW - yes it happens on PC too.

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by 3dot... » Sun May 24, 2009 2:09 pm

Angstrom wrote:Bug topic created, with images

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=115891

BTW - yes it happens on PC too.
why are you posting it in beta bugs ?
Image

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Is Ableton Killing your Transients? It's killing mine...

Post by 3dot... » Sun May 24, 2009 2:19 pm

Angstrom wrote:interesting subject, and you seem to be correct. In fact you can see it doing the bad thang while you drop a sample into arrangment. The 'ghostly' drag and drop version looks fine and once it is dropped the kick transient is faded.
This topic needs to be in bugs and problems.

It seems to me that the problem lies with the new fade/crossfade system, because when you 'reset fade' the supposed 'non-fade' actually has more fade than it should.

I will make a post in L8 Beta bugs with images
hey... it's not a matter of editing the fades out..

1.take a clip drop it on a track...duplicate the track
2.check to see there are no fades
3.drop utility on 1 track phaze invert L/R
4.loop 2 tracks together = no sound = complete cancelation
5.consolidate one of the clips
6.check to see there are no fades and that warp is off.
7.play --> clickidy click
:x
Image

Post Reply