Live Performance Input Please

[Gilyslas]

Does anyone out there use Ableton regularly for live performance (clubs, casuals, private
parties, concerts). I'm still majorly trying to decide whether
I should go Ableton Live 8 or do I go with a hardware system like the Yamaha RS7000.
I don't do hip hop, dance, techno or r&b with all due respect.
I am not a DJ, though I appreciate what you guys do, you're amazing.
The kind of music I do is ambient guitar with world percussion. I'm
an improvisational guitarist who has some jazzy fingerstyle
arrangements.
I need a live set up (has to be rock solid) that can be set up to
jam at the same time add/subtract parts on the fly and create
loops as needed. The best way I can describe my music is Phil Keaggy
meets Pat Metheny. What is the experience out there with Ableton 8's
looping functions. How does Ableton compare to the Boss RC-50 for looping.
Can midi and audio tracks in Ableton be
layered on the fly creating musical passages that are not mechanical sounding.

And, how does one do this. How solid is Ableton in a live situation. Will a
powerful Apple G4 Powerbook do the trick. Do I need any special pedals to
trigger scenes in Ableton. Can I control song form (intros, A Part, B Part, Endings) from a midi pedal?


I am a professional musician who's decided to go solo. But I need a dynamite
backup band in a package that doesn't sound like Karaoke or Band in the Box.

Check out clips at CD Baby for an example of what I do:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/gilbertyslas


Any advice would be very helpful. Thank you kindly.

Gilbert in Seattle



.

[pepezabala]

you can do all that.

The RC-50 is still more confortable for on the fly looping because for ableton you need a computer, a decent soundcard and a midi-pedalboard. The boss looper is just one item and works out of the box without latency.

But when it comes to on-the-fly-arranging you can't beat ableton.

[toneklang]

I would go for the Ableton/interface/pedal setup, instead of a loopermaschine. If you progress in your computerskills, youll find Ableton much more fun and versatile then a simple looper. And with Max for Live comming up, theres no guessing what kind of applications that will add to the Live experience.

At the same time, the new Looper effect gives you a more free performance when it comes to looping and jamming. These can be draged out of the effect and manipulated on the fly.

So go Ableton, it's a long term investment I'm sure you'll be happy with.

Ps. You can also take a look at NativeInstruments-GuitarRig. It's quite cool for guitarist.

[gtodd876]

I would try a demo first.

I'm a classical double bassist trying to do the same type of things as you solo. I will not play out live with looper yet as I have too many pop/clicks and artifacts when I use it. I'm back to using 3rd party plugs, Mobius and sooperlooper which work flawlessly. I tried to deal with Ableton support (case opened April 24th) but it has now been 32 days with no help. I got one reply 11 days later apologizing for the delay and the only help was to change buffer settings on my MOTU ultralite. They also got my question wrong as well. So I immediately replied back to straighten out my question and to let them know changing the buffer size did not solve the problem....AND that the other 3rd looper plugs loop seemlessly without glitches. So my computer can handle the load fine(Macbook dual 2ghz(early 2009), 4gigs ram, motu ultralite) We are talking 7 percent on Live's CPU meter! When I click on the test tone in preferences with the buffer set to 128 samples I get no pops and clicks even when moving cpu meter up to 70-80percent. Another reason I'm sure the problem is with looper because recording into audio clips sound and loop just fine. My specific problems are doubling/having the buffer, and switching between overdub/play mode after multiple layers have been already recorded.

Now that being said I still love ableton even though I am pretty upset with the customer service right now. I still have faith this will be fixed in the future but you did say you wanted something rock solid. Ableton 8 is brand new and absolutely not rock solid as you can tell from a sample of the forum posts......BUT there are other people using ableton's looper playing live with no problems so you might be problem free.....or you might end up in my situation.

Make sure you have two weeks that you can really dedicate to the program and download the demo. You'll either have a miserable time with problem after problem or you'll end up making great music and loving every second of it. Either way you'll have answered your question and you'll never know until you go down the ableton path:)

hope my 2 cents helps,

Todd

[Gilyslas]

Thank you Tod for taking the time to respond. Quite frankly, going the live performance route with Ableton 7 or 8
can be very intimidating and at the same time very exciting. The unknown is always exciting, and yes, there will
always be obstacles and issues. All of us have been there. Do you have any posts of your music?
The looping function in Ableton is not an absolute priority. There are so many musicians that use and overdue
that effect. What I'm envisioning is: Being able to show up to a gig solo, and sound like a symphony but tastefully
done so the audience feels the experience of the music. It's the experience of the music that I want to get over
and not the fact that it was programmed on a computer. To put it another way, I want the ability and freedom to move in
and out of a music arrangement driving the music with colorful live guitar textures and powerful world percussion.
Ala Peter Gabriel. We're talking show, so please any ideas out there please respond.

Also, the Akai APC40 sounds like a dynamite piece of gear to trigger events in Ableton without the restrictions of using a mouse or looking at the screen. This is not the kind of music I do but check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nrma91BXL0 You kindoff get the picture of what the possibilities are. Is this unit out yet?

Live performance is an art. You DJ's do it great and make it look easy. Can Ableton be used as a tool to make art
for solo musicians. I'm thinking real hard before I take the plunge.

Thanks for any input.

Gilbert in Seattle

[nowtime]

2 things:

A Powerbook could be VERY limiting for you. It was for me. As soon as I got a newer Mac I could do everything I was trying to do before.

Also, as you could see in the APC video, it takes free limbs to orchestrate movement of the music in an improvisational way. You could use one of these http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/qualit ... 14aad7.jpg. for when your hands are busy. Maybe get an APC40 for when your hands are free. I use the potent combo of BCR2000 + BCF2000. It's easier for keyboardists. Have one hand on a keyboard and the other on controllers. You're gonna have to be pretty independent with your feet!

You could create a sense of movement in the music with a Yamaha RS7000 with alot less time, learning curve and money. And you will have alot less freedom compared to Live. You could always hook up with another Abletonite who could be your free hands! I am awaiting breathlessly this kind of collaboration.

Good luck! Have fun! I will bet that you are officially hooked on Ableton LIve before even trying it! Because you can see the possibilities. And it works!

[Sage]

I would try a demo first.

I'm a classical double bassist trying to do the same type of things as you solo. I will not play out live with looper yet as I have too many pop/clicks and artifacts when I use it. I'm back to using 3rd party plugs, Mobius and sooperlooper which work flawlessly. I tried to deal with Ableton support (case opened April 24th) but it has now been 32 days with no help. I got one reply 11 days later apologizing for the delay and the only help was to change buffer settings on my MOTU ultralite. They also got my question wrong as well. So I immediately replied back to straighten out my question and to let them know changing the buffer size did not solve the problem....AND that the other 3rd looper plugs loop seemlessly without glitches. So my computer can handle the load fine(Macbook dual 2ghz(early 2009), 4gigs ram, motu ultralite) We are talking 7 percent on Live's CPU meter! When I click on the test tone in preferences with the buffer set to 128 samples I get no pops and clicks even when moving cpu meter up to 70-80percent. Another reason I'm sure the problem is with looper because recording into audio clips sound and loop just fine. My specific problems are doubling/having the buffer, and switching between overdub/play mode after multiple layers have been already recorded.

Now that being said I still love ableton even though I am pretty upset with the customer service right now. I still have faith this will be fixed in the future but you did say you wanted something rock solid. Ableton 8 is brand new and absolutely not rock solid as you can tell from a sample of the forum posts......BUT there are other people using ableton's looper playing live with no problems so you might be problem free.....or you might end up in my situation.

Make sure you have two weeks that you can really dedicate to the program and download the demo. You'll either have a miserable time with problem after problem or you'll end up making great music and loving every second of it. Either way you'll have answered your question and you'll never know until you go down the ableton path:)

hope my 2 cents helps,

Todd

I've on the same spec Macbook and have had no issues with Looper whatsoever, but don't have my buffer settings anywhere near 128, better to set the buffer to the point where latency is just before it is noticeable rather than as low as you can go before cracks and pops as it'll crack & pop at 7% as it does at 70%.

I've never really got on with hardware loopers (been playing guitar for 7ish years now), but Looper works in a way I've always wanted a looper to work.

[gtodd876]

I'll try higher buffer settings and see how that works out.



Thanks for the help,

Todd