Robert Henke and Operator

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Benshik
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Robert Henke and Operator

Post by Benshik » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:21 pm

Unfortunately, I think that Operator's release is a complete mistake. Imagine: the big guys with their big bucks are trying to copy Live (Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer all try to infiltrate the territory of "elastic audio"), and what do our Ableton do? They let their guards down, they leave the ground in which they have the advantage to release a FM soft synth!!!!!!! Unbelievable.

If you want to survive in business you must CONSOLIDATE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE before expending to new territories!!!!!
For example, try to work out the performance issues on macs, try to make current Live fonctions more usable, improve pitch shifting. Soon Im scared I'll have to spend money to buy Melodyne coz I am really sick of Live's sometimes mediocre pitch shifting capabilities (espescially when playing with the "transpose" envelope of a clip, a "revolutionnary" fonction introduced with Live 3 but that still doesnt work fully well) Why don't you implement quality pitch shifting, which is in the domain of elastic audio - your territory- instead of releasing a FM soft synth???

By releasing Operator, you just dispersed your energies and dissolved your image. My humble advice would be "Do one thing, but do it well" We now got very far from the initial positioning of the product of "an audio sequencer you can play like an instrument." And let's avoid talking about the pricing policy!!!!!...

So... why Operator seems to be such a bad marketing trick? because it isn't one... It's Robert's little baby.

Robert Henke is Ableton's Bill Gates. He's "the ego" behind the company. Live came to life because someday this guy got unsatisfied of the sequencers on the market and decided to create the audio sequencer HE needs. For himself. It happened to be right, because obviously lots of other guys felt just like him and embraced Live as their new favorite music making tool.

Did you guys read "the operator's story" on this site? here are some Robert's quotations:

"I have always had a special fascination with early digital synthesizers"
"As I began researching and prototyping a synthesizer, I continually compared my own creations to the hardware machines that I own and love"
"In my own musical works, I use FM more than any other form of synthesis"
"The result is Operator, which for me stands well beside the hardware instruments that I own and love in terms of sonic depth and character"

"my fascination, my own creations, my own musical works, me, me, me, me, me!!!!!!! "

Yep, my verdict is: OPERATOR = ROBERT HENKE'S EGO TRIP.

On one hand, I respect strong individuals who make their dreams come true. Robert seems to be one of them. I am thankful to this guy and wish him the best. On the other hand, I think this time the genious touch was not there.
If Ableton as a COLLECTIVE company wants to survive, they will have to relie not only on Mr Henke's tastes. ;)

Ben

PS: if Operator itself isn't a profit-driven marketing trick, the forced incorporation of the demo in the v 4.1 is though!!!!

gaspode
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Post by gaspode » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:41 pm

Ableton is not a big company and they don't have to play by big company rules. Personally I would prefer that Live does not become a cash cow, with releases becoming essentially GUI fluff with minor bug fixes.

If they feel the need to create something new then all the more power to them. I would prefer that their small team stay fresh and innovative, explore new ideas and gain new experiences to benefit their product line as a whole.

What is the big deal that they included their new synth into Live? Does the "DEMO" beside Operator somehow shock you? Is it somehow less functional than it should be? From my standpoint it is fully functional. There is nothing stopping you from using it in a track. You can route audio from the Operator track and record it even if it is in demo mode. The *only* thing you cannot do is save your own patches. This product is less gimped than just about any demo I have seen.

Greg

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:42 pm

Benshik - since your first play with Operator when you formed your opinion, did you have another go and let your guard down to see what you can get out of it? I was vocal in criticising it myself at first, but then I sat down and plugged in the UC-33 and really got into it and I definitely feel it offers something my other softsynths dont. It's the quickness in getting good sounds that gets me - if you dont stick to the presets once you get used to the parameters it can do wonders. Combined with the Live FX you can get some amazing sounds

Benshik
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Post by Benshik » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:55 pm

forge, honestly, I didn't play much with Operator. Im sure you can get great sounds out of it and I am not critical to the soft synth itself. Im just saying that it's not a very good marketing move... coz it's the project of a guy who does purely what he likes. which in a way is really really cool, but which can also end up being harmful for Live and for all of us who support it.

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:56 pm

It might be ego trip, why not, let him have the thrill. It was silly move, though the kids of the Abefanclub will buy and praise anything what has the Ableton logo on it but it does not change the fact it is rather useless release. Coffee mugs, T shirts etc are cheaper way to get the money out of them. I do not think any producer here does not own real or virtual FM synth, the Operator is not bad, I tried it a bit but have no time to waste on experimenting with something what is not outstanding in any way. I do not have time interests to collect free VSTs, I do not do it. The price is not the issue, I would pay 300 if it was worth it, if it was as special as "LIve" is.
Being Abletonfan is not my trip, "Live" is a tool for my work and I expect the company to maintain the professional attitude.
I truly hope it is just the "ego trip" and not that some silly marketing chaps took over. There are more important issues, like the absolutely basic if not primitive midi which forces to use other softwares.
Personally I believe that the main reason for the fury ( on this forum) regarding the NAMM release was the fact the for the first time this company released something avarage, if not lame, Ableton lost hte edge.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:34 pm

Benshiks post seems valid, although it is stated in overly emotive terms.

Having an 'Ego' or corporate visionary hasnt harmed Apple or Microsoft, or even Ableton ... in fact it is their strength.

The only problem is that visionaries are human, they ocaisionally make mistakes for which the company and users suffer. With Ableton, the lack of customer awareness of any future developments in Live give the impression that Live may fall behind lesser rivals. Apple story anyone? ;)
Something which ALL live customers do not want.

Personally I would rather have seen the 'small sub-team' which developed Operator put onto things like Hidable/groupable tracks (visibility groups) or Pitch shifting technologies ... things which would probably bring more Dollars (or Euro)

If at Namm Ableton had announced 'melodyne' style pitch shifting, it would have made a bigger story IMO and would have won over more new users. Melodyne costs a fortune and is unstable and of limited uses, the same tech in Live would be much better.

ekko
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Post by ekko » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:40 pm

Maybe the ridiculously high price of Operator is to fund an account which is earmarked for buying the Melodyne company and technology. :twisted:

sqook
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Post by sqook » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:58 pm

So Henke felt compelled to create a soft synth and he used his own company to do it... I don't really see what the big outcry is here. If you don't like the tool that he produced, then don't use it. I don't like a lot of the stuff that propellerheads makes but I'll still stick with them for reason alone.

I also don't understand all the ableton-bashing these days on the boards. Clearly people should have better things to do with their time than cry about an "Operator (demo)" link in their plugin list... but this is the internet, so I guess not. =/

tylast
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Post by tylast » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:10 pm

Who says they aren't working on anything else? Lots of other companies release small updates inbetween the whole numbered releases. People are pounding on the Abletons for doing the same....come on. Ableton is still cranking out product faster than anyone else out there.

mcconaghy
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Post by mcconaghy » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:31 pm

tylast wrote:Who says they aren't working on anything else? Lots of other companies release small updates inbetween the whole numbered releases. People are pounding on the Abletons for doing the same....come on. Ableton is still cranking out product faster than anyone else out there.
My thoughts exactly. If Ableton don't implement all those changes and improvements in version 5.0, then you'd have something to complain about. It's a freakin' .1 release, people!

gaspode
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Post by gaspode » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:53 pm

ekko wrote:Maybe the ridiculously high price of Operator is to fund an account which is earmarked for buying the Melodyne company and technology. :twisted:
Tea and crumpets for all! :)

Deadbeat
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Post by Deadbeat » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:06 pm

Thank you Oh! Seer of Wisdom for elucidating we lesser beings!

Clearly, as you have so deftly pontificated over 7 paragraphs, Operator is no mere optional upgrade, but a malicious public Id wank designed to further Robert's evil plan to monopolize the world's every technological resource and bend them to his own sadistic will...

At any rate, you've certainly made my morning. This is the funniest thing I've read weeks!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:17 pm

Image

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:20 pm

Benshik wrote:forge, honestly, I didn't play much with Operator. Im sure you can get great sounds out of it and I am not critical to the soft synth itself. Im just saying that it's not a very good marketing move... coz it's the project of a guy who does purely what he likes. which in a way is really really cool, but which can also end up being harmful for Live and for all of us who support it.
it's not even really about the great sounds you can get out of it - rather the ease with which you can get to them once you get acuainted with what's where - it adheres to the same Ableton ethos of being hugley intuitive and it's fantastically tweekable with a decent midi controller - it makes me feel about a thousand times more like playing with the parameters than FM7 - and it's not even a direct parallel to it really - it has a totally different character of it's own.

If they now were to improve the compression/mastering side of things I could almost see myself using nothing else but Live before too long.

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Post by forge » Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:21 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
:lol: :lol:
Last edited by forge on Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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