I lost Ableton - Frauded on ebay :(

[jonny72]

If it was me, I wouldn't let Ableton get away with doing that without a fight.

How do you know the card used to purchase it was stolen? Have they provided any evidence to support their claim?

Where was it originally purchased? It must have been over the internet, quite probably direct from Ableton, and whoever sold it must have had zero security in place to stop fraudulent transactions. Why should you pay the price for their incompetence?

I'd also question whether what they have done is legal, I'm not sure it would be in the UK. The goods weren't stolen, you bought them in good faith and Ableton verified and confirmed the license transfer which I reckon gives you a strong argument to claim ownership.

Most importantly this is a real dumb thing for Ableton to do, unless they had reason to believe you were involved in it. They haven't lost a single cent and have just shafted one of their customers. Not exactly good PR.

[fishmonkey]

the goods were effectively stolen, they were acquired with stolen credit...

it's easy to use a card that isn't yours if you have the billing address...

you are arguing that stolen goods should no longer be considered stolen as long as the thief was paid for them!

[lapieuvre]

How do you know the card used to purchase it was stolen? Have they provided any evidence to support their claim?

I asked, Ableton refused, but they will cooperate with PD if necessary.

The worst of the situation is that in my Paypal account I have THE NAME OF THE THIEF!!! Did he make a fake name? How would he collect the money after a transaction if he has a fake name?

I called the RCMP (The FBI of Canada) and they didn't bother with the situation. They just said "Paypal must refund you". No one wants to know this info.

the goods were effectively stolen, they were acquired with stolen credit...

I have to agree with you, but 2 months later???

[fishmonkey]

the goods were effectively stolen, they were acquired with stolen credit...

I have to agree with you, but 2 months later???

maybe it took that long for the real owner of the credit card to realise what had happened?

anyway, that you got ripped off sucks, and i really hope you get your money back...

[aqua_tek]

that's pretty rough. Best of luck trying to sort it out.

[lapieuvre]

you'll feel better watching Judge Judy take on an ebay scam court case.
http://www.classhole.com/videos/ebay-scammer-ownzed

Indeed, that brought me a smile

[v76]

Happened to me too! Seller on ebay was "fuken_a" (http://myworld.ebay.com/fuken_a). Good name cuz he's a total fuken_a-hole!
Ableton cancelled my Live 8 Suite license, too. Not super nice.

The worst thing is that ebay wouldn't cancel his account or do anything about it, they just sent me "automated responses"
about how they take my case seriously (NOT).

Paypal did refund me the money.

I understand how Ableton don't make a dime on this and people would probably abuse them if they let
them use copies bought on stolen CCs but it's still a drag to have my serials cancelled ; I'll buy
another copy in the future but i'm a bit... bitter about their aggressive behaviour regarding this:
I checked the license beforehand with them and it was legit... until they found out and
IMMEDIATELY cancelled my copy. Not a great sight when you open a new project.

[lapieuvre]

Same guy!! That is good news if you got refunded then because I still didn't get an answer from Paypal. When I filled the online form, it was squares to check, and nothing described our case precisely. Hope I filled it right, that was last tuesday... When did you ask for a refund?

Paypal must be on the case then, the guy is in trouble

[Johnisfaster]

I understand how Ableton don't make a dime on this and people would probably abuse them if they let
them use copies bought on stolen CCs but it's still a drag to have my serials cancelled ; I'll buy
another copy in the future but i'm a bit... bitter about their aggressive behaviour regarding this:
I checked the license beforehand with them and it was legit... until they found out and
IMMEDIATELY cancelled my copy. Not a great sight when you open a new project.

but are you saying it's not fair for ableton to cancel it? sounds fair to me. if you got a fake $100 for xmas and you spent it on something does that person not have the right to take their product back when they realize the money isn't real?

[v76]

I understand how Ableton don't make a dime on this and people would probably abuse them if they let
them use copies bought on stolen CCs but it's still a drag to have my serials cancelled ; I'll buy
another copy in the future but i'm a bit... bitter about their aggressive behaviour regarding this:
I checked the license beforehand with them and it was legit... until they found out and
IMMEDIATELY cancelled my copy. Not a great sight when you open a new project.

but are you saying it's not fair for ableton to cancel it? sounds fair to me. if you got a fake $100 for xmas and you spent it on something does that person not have the right to take their product back when they realize the money isn't real?

Well, that's what YOU want to say. I never said that... maybe re-read my post, english isn't my native language.
But there are a lot of ways to look at it. I mean, I checked beforehand with Ableton and they
said it was legit (confirmed) and they did the license transfer thing too. Now they cancelled it out of
nowhere... so at that point I say that THEY should take the loss, not me. But from a business
point of view they did the right thing... else, everybody would "lose" their CC and the thieves
would buy Live 8 suite!

[Johnisfaster]

from a legal stand point I don't think they are even allowed to let someone keep a license that was purchased with a stolen credit card, even if it has changed hands since then.
I run a small business, if someone bought something from me with fake money and then sold it to a friend of theirs I would hunt that product down and take it back. thats what is fair to me as the business owner. sure it sucks for the person who bought it from the person who used fake money but that is not the business owners problem.

[v76]

from a legal stand point I don't think they are even allowed to let someone keep a license that was purchased with a stolen credit card, even if it has changed hands since then.
I run a small business, if someone bought something from me with fake money and then sold it to a friend of theirs I would hunt that product down and take it back. thats what is fair to me as the business owner. sure it sucks for the person who bought it from the person who used fake money but that is not the business owners problem.

Since we're not lawyers I guess we should keep these hypotheses for ourselves...

My point is that they should intercept those licenses before they allow the license transfer.
(ie. have a wait time of 4-6 weeks before you can transfer them to somebody else)

In my case, I inquired beforehand about the legitimity of the offer and they did
the license transfer and yadayada. But I know my gullibility is not the owner's
problem...

[v76]

Same guy!! That is good news if you got refunded then because I still didn't get an answer from Paypal. When I filled the online form, it was squares to check, and nothing described our case precisely. Hope I filled it right, that was last tuesday... When did you ask for a refund?

Paypal must be on the case then, the guy is in trouble

I think I filed on May 3rd of 4th. Luckily I paid via a Paypal credit card and got refunded quickly. But if you paid directly from a bank account, maybe the seller already withdrew the money... but hopefully you're covered by Paypal! If all else fails... he lives in Florida... Good luck!

Here's the guy myspace and web site
http://djremedy.net/gfx/
http://www.myspace.com/therealdjgfx
http://www.myspace.com/fuken_a

[lapieuvre]

Here's the guy myspace and web site
http://djremedy.net/gfx/
http://www.myspace.com/therealdjgfx
http://www.myspace.com/fuken_a

What an idiot, He's all over the web... He must want to go to jail, and from his ebay feedback, he only sells downloads softwares. He must have ripped so many people...

[H20nly]

What an idiot, He's all over the web... He must want to go to jail, and from his ebay feedback, he only sells downloads softwares. He must have ripped so many people...

Doesn't it make you feel good to know that fucker is gonna get burned?..
No patience for thieves here.