Why Upgrading to Live 8 is a Waste of Money

[Sage]

I would think someone named "UKRuss" would understand my dry humor. Points taken on the groove engine and such.

What dry humour? Ranting and sarcasm with about as much wit, intelligence and flair as a 13 year old wannabe gangster doesn't exactly qualify.


Ok, you're a 'pro' DJ and you're moaning about the features in Live 8 that don't necessarily apply to what you do and you've totally missed how they be of use to others. I've found Looper to be very useful, as a guitarist, I'm already used to how that style of SOS looper works and it compare it to Beat Repeat shows you don't really know what you are talking about and just because you are a 'Pro' doesn't mean that doesn't apply.

I'm not a pro and I don't require presets to show me how to use a synth, I actually made the effort to learn that years ago. I've spent years playing an instrument where high end equipment doesn't come with presets, I'm not going to go bitching about Marshall because their JMP's don't come with a setting to turn me into Hendrix, nor go to Fender moaning because their guitars don't tell me how to play them.


But yes, the upgrade was too expensive.

[contakt321]

Sorry dude.

I respect you having an opinion, but so much of what you wrote is inaccurate making it a waste of a read. If you are going to rant, get your facts straight.

The stuff you whine about is so ass-backward"

- Group tracks = frequent request on the forums
- Groove = frequent request on the forums
- Old version of swing = so far you are the only person I have heard say they like it better
- New version of warping = different, but more intuitive
- Transient detection = the clip you showed didn't have clear transients from what I saw, put them in yourself
- Dedicated effects vx. instrument rack = really? you want use more processing power and have several things do the job of 1 thing?

Sorry man, your blog entry = fail

[leisuremuffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53CbTMd3Kc

All arguments are solved by keyboard cat.

Edited with Live 8

legendary! Thank you poodleface.



.lm.

[stringtapper]

Most people would settle for the preset packs and feature sets Ableton comes up with. I expect more from a professional, large-staffed software company. I expect a set of usable, predictable presets to arrive alongside each new feature - otherwise, the feature is largely useless, since you are leaving a large portion of the actual sound design work to your users.

Customer support is nice, and it's also nice that Ableton listens to what their customers want, but I think part of the problem is you guys are mostly, no offense, a bunch of amateurs. The more Ableton listens to you, the less their software will rise to professional standards.

So you're complaining about presets but we're the amateurs?? That's a good one. Play him off keyboard cat...

[Tone Deft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53CbTMd3Kc

All arguments are solved by keyboard cat.

Edited with Live 8

funniest thing I've ever seen here? hil-f-ing-larious!!!!


OP - congrats on the blog troll. funny, looks like you bought Live 8. fail.

[jlgrimes]

You made some valid points but for the most part I think you went overcritical.

Yes FL is cheaper than Live (actually Live is a pretty expensive program) and has many features Live does not have, but FL workflow is entirely different than Live and for me doesn't seem as stable.

1. The Groove Engine points you made that were valid was how Live got rid of the old presets, which is confusing, but I'll also add that the Groove Engine overall is a huge improvement in how Live used to operate. Live's older Global only Groove amount was extremely limiting and didn't match any of their competition. I'm glad Live changed this.

2. Multiparameter automation and changing multiple parameters at once. I think live hit a homerun on this alone. Live's implementation of this is pretty good. You can also change multi track output settings but multi input monitor settings. This makes setting up multitrack record sessions extremly fast now. There was some bugs on the multiparameter automation but now setting it up is pretty easy.

3. I didn't care for the warping engine changes at first but after getting used to it, I think it is just as good as the old way and definitely easier for a newcomer to grasp.

4. Live implementation of Step Recording I am critical about though. It just plain is inefficient in its current implementation. Why should you need a computer keybinding to step input notes? On other hosts step recording is just something you turn on and off, But while it is own you can input notes in step time just by playing the midi keyboard or computer keyboard. A good step recorder should also let you correct your mistakes and go backwards and change note lengths on the fly. Live 8 pretty much does all of this but having to press the arrow to input a note defeats the whole purpose of step recording imo and is very inergonomical.

5. I think for the most part though Live 8 is an improvement (other than the bugs that were introduced).

[leisuremuffin]

seriously, Chas, you're a straight up toy.

wrong neighborhood for you to step through, kid, the rats 'll whoop your ass around here.





uhg, a DJ figures out how to map beat repeat to a controller and thinks he's a genius... sickening.

I mean, the guy clearly hasn't used 8 enough to even understand how the new features work.
I don't even call myself a DJ (still just a plain ol electronic musician), but i do go out and play DJ gigs every once in a while for fun.
And i can say without question that the new warping system has saved my fuck-tons of time when preparing tracks for DJ sets.
i play a lot of non electronic music in my sets and have spent a lot of time warping very hard to warp material.
I can say this: Auto warp has never worked 100% for anything other than straight techno tracks, and even then it needs to be tweaked sometimes. But, the new transient detection cuts the time of the manual warping process by at least half. And i've even had auto warp get really close on some 70's dub tracks that it never was able to get before. I still had to tweak it, but it's way closer than it was previously.


But that's about the end of the road for where i think Chas even has any credibility, I mean, i'll give the guy some for the DJ side of stuff. He obviously spent a little time and thought setting up his controller. But when he starts talking about something like looper (which he describes as a "beat repeat clone") or his hopeless misunderstanding of the whole point of including arrangement crossfades, he's obviously out of his depth. And the gripes about presets? Presets are for toys, Chas.



But to be fair, i can see where a dj wouldn't need to upgrade. you can create excellent dj sets with a whole lot less than live 8. Why, i've even heard that some folks still do it with turntables and a mixer.



But what would i know? i'm just an amateur who has performed live electronic music for over 14 years and taught electronic music production and audio engineering in trade schools.



.lm.

[Marcus007]

Are you STILL bitching about Live 8?

SHUT UP ALREADY... tool!

[ethios4]

Waaa waaaa ya fuckin baby. They didn't meet your wish list but they sure met mine! I disagree with nearly every point you made, up until I got done rendering and had to go back to making music.

[H20nly]

OP... I think you definitely put a bullseye on your arse and said shoot me with this one. In the future I would suggest less cocky and more stick-to-the-facts if you really wanna keep keyboard cat away.

At the end of the day, doesn't a DJ need to be able to juggle records? Bells and whistles are cool but fuck.. make em dance. If the features don't work for ya... don't use em. Decks and recs baby.

I will take the time to mention that I purchased Fruity Loops Studio 5 Producer Edition years ago. At that time I was offered free upGRADES for life. I now have version 8 and have not dropped any additional clout, however... I had to purchase the upGRADES for life feature. I don't remember but I think it was $75.00 back then. I use Live for beats but sometimes when I'm in a hurry FL still works for me. I don't really use Session view in Live, but Arrangement view is a place my eyes and mind go often.

Why you gotta be so hard on Ableton? Live is still fucking awesome!

Any way you slice it, creating music, whether it be with an instrument like a guitar or newer electronic instruments such as a DAW, is still about creativity and being creative so use what you have and make something. I think you should have posted a track you did in Live instead. Then you could have bitched about features during the discussion as opposed to coming off like a pompous ass.

[leisuremuffin]

I think you should have posted a track you did in Live instead. Then you could have bitched about features during the discussion as opposed to coming off like a pompous ass.

Brah, don't you know you can buy tracks on beatport for about a buck a shot? Why bother making any?



.lm.

[Superchibisan]

i think this article is a tour de force of ignorance. you obviously don't know how to use the software effectively.

[H20nly]

I think you should have posted a track you did in Live instead. Then you could have bitched about features during the discussion as opposed to coming off like a pompous ass.

Brah, don't you know you can buy tracks on beatport for about a buck a shot? Why bother making any?

.lm.

FUCK!! For real... that means I could have had about 15,000 beats to flow over instead of wasting the last X years buying hardware and software...

Of course there is that whole originality thing that constantly plagues me...

[Tone Deft]

leave comments on his blog.

omfg, I just picked up that he's the ass in poodleface's youtube link.



don't believe everything on the interwebz.


blogging about presets sucking?? suddenly my self esteem has shot through the roof.

[hacktheplanet]

YEEEEEAH RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE BRO!
TAKE ABLETON DOWN SINGLEHANDEDLY!
WOOOOOOOOOOOO RESIST! RESIST! RESIST!
DEATH TO SOFTWARE COMPANIES!!!