ot : RACISM...

[Android Bishop]

No, what I'm suggesting is eliminating taxpayer services and healthcare for illegal citizens and cracking down on businesses employing illegal immigrants down to the point where it is economically risky to do so, thus forcing businesses to look for legitimate workers, and allowing the market to correct itself. You dont need to regulate the entire economy and people's lifestyles to make that change, you just attack the root and let everything else adapt in turn.

Immigration laws need to be reformed too. I find it outrageous that people with educations, coming here legitimately, find it next to impossible to stay and work here without going through the completely dysfunctional immigration and Visa system (and are regularly kicked out of the country as a result. This happened to several of my friends who were sent packing because companies didnt want to go through the H1 Visa bullshit to hire them and its next to impossible to get citizenship) but nobody bats an eye with the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of illegal immigrants who come here. That whole system needs an overhaul too if this shit is going to work.

[Sage]

Qualify reality with reason. Just stating that is like stating, "it's raining outside where I am at". Kind of meaningless.

Illegal immigrants freeload by working under the table man. What the heck are you talking about?

They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.

Isn't the percentage of people with health insurance ridiculously low in the USA? There's plenty more people exploiting the system than immigrants, illegal or not.

If they are working, then the person employing them is committing a crime as well. There's no point blaming the immigrants, blame the people who are happy to brake the law for cheap labour and the people who police the system for allowing them to get away with it, it's easy to blame illegal immigrants for the problem, but the reality is that it's actually legal citizens who are at fault.

[DrXparaMental]

Qualify reality with reason. Just stating that is like stating, "it's raining outside where I am at". Kind of meaningless.

Illegal immigrants freeload by working under the table man. What the heck are you talking about?

They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.

Isn't the percentage of people with health insurance ridiculously low in the USA? There's plenty more people exploiting the system than immigrants, illegal or not.

If they are working, then the person employing them is committing a crime as well. There's no point blaming the immigrants, blame the people who are happy to brake the law for cheap labour and the people who police the system for allowing them to get away with it, it's easy to blame illegal immigrants for the problem, but the reality is that it's actually legal citizens who are at fault.

What does ANY of this have to do with the extreme cost and detriment of the issue that is "illegal aliens residing in the United States and illegal immigration into the United States"? I am sorry friend but you are either (a) lost, or (b) lost.

This is what happens when external armchair assessments enter the equation. You may in fact mean all the good in the world, but if you don't HONESTLY know what you are attempting to comment on, EVERY sentence you write should end with a question mark.

Do just a modicum of research and get back to us.

I'll leave my comments at this concerning this thread because it's just too much "going over the same old ground" at this point.

Bottom Line IMO: Illegal Immigration and it's residual US non citizenry has been, and is, an extremely damaging element to the US as a whole. It is a self serving undermining of what the rest have to pay for. This is based on the reality of our present politically self serving bullshit system and the effect that Illegal Immigration has on the rest of our country and it's citizenry.

No, the United States is not presently set up to benefit from being a big flop house. Even though I HATE the fact that it is presently set up to best serve the needs of the elite few, I must insist that if you are going to come here and reap the benefits that oppose the oppression that you are choosing to avoid be being here, either you (a) "get with the program", or (b) "get the fuck out" No excuses or exceptions.

[brightonalex]

Well if you insist they can't come in I suppose that's the end of the matter.

[leisuremuffin]

Qualify reality with reason. Just stating that is like stating, "it's raining outside where I am at". Kind of meaningless.

Illegal immigrants freeload by working under the table man. What the heck are you talking about?

They freeload when they plop down in an ER somewhere and get patched up and disappear. Happens EVERYDAY.

Isn't the percentage of people with health insurance ridiculously low in the USA? There's plenty more people exploiting the system than immigrants, illegal or not.

If they are working, then the person employing them is committing a crime as well. There's no point blaming the immigrants, blame the people who are happy to brake the law for cheap labour and the people who police the system for allowing them to get away with it, it's easy to blame illegal immigrants for the problem, but the reality is that it's actually legal citizens who are at fault.

Yeah, i already pointed that out.

DrX continues to go on and on about the cost of illegals but he may not have though through the implications of taking a hard line of actually kicking them out. I wonder how he'll feel about paying for produce when it's grown and processed by labor that demands a fair wage and benefits. The small portion of your tax dollar that you complain about going to illegals isn't paying for illegals to have a fucking party, it's paying for the greed of the businesses that are hiring them and is what's keeping the cost of your food affordable. Kick out the illegals and you'll just end up paying that same money at the store or maybe even as government subsidies to the businesses that can't run without the near slave labor these people provide.




.lm.

[Sage]

What does ANY of this have to do with the extreme cost and detriment of the issue that is "illegal aliens residing in the United States and illegal immigration into the United States"? I am sorry friend but you are either (a) lost, or (b) lost.

It has everything to do with it! These people are giving them the work and paying them for it, they don't go to the USA and get handed tax payer's money on a plate at the border!



You're the one lost in your own closed, ignorant mind.

[dinaiz]

You get sort of used to it. I am an expat in the south of France and experience xenophobia to different degrees. My non caucasian friends get a much harder time mind.

Where exactly ? South east is much worse than south west generally speaking, believe me I tried both !!!!!!

[DrXparaMental]

Yeah, i already pointed that out.

DrX continues to go on and on about the cost of illegals but he may not have though through the implications of taking a hard line of actually kicking them out. I wonder how he'll feel about paying for produce when it's grown and processed by labor that demands a fair wage and benefits. The small portion of your tax dollar that you complain about going to illegals isn't paying for illegals to have a fucking party, it's paying for the greed of the businesses that are hiring them and is what's keeping the cost of your food affordable. Kick out the illegals and you'll just end up paying that same money at the store or maybe even as government subsidies to the businesses that can't run without the near slave labor these people provide.


.lm.

OK, no more opinions from me on the immigration issue. But I can't let you get away with this utter nonsense. This is the plain and simple truth, and frankly, you guys should do a little homework before spouting off so much bullshit.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Now if you want to contest the FACTS, go ahead. But, PLEASE, stop the silliness.

PS. If you knew ANYTHING about economics my friend you would know that wages will ALWAYS equate what the market will bare. That's silly LM. You should know better. What? Do you think that all of sudden people will pay 6.00 for an apple becausae it's hand picked by someone other than an illegal alien? Holy rebel without a clue! What happened to people's consumption of gasoline when it went to 4.00 a gallon here? Consumption went down and guess what? So does the price of the item out of necessity. whoa!

[candy warlos]

racism is bad, war is bad, peace is good, freedom ain't free.

[Sage]

Yeah, i already pointed that out.

DrX continues to go on and on about the cost of illegals but he may not have though through the implications of taking a hard line of actually kicking them out. I wonder how he'll feel about paying for produce when it's grown and processed by labor that demands a fair wage and benefits. The small portion of your tax dollar that you complain about going to illegals isn't paying for illegals to have a fucking party, it's paying for the greed of the businesses that are hiring them and is what's keeping the cost of your food affordable. Kick out the illegals and you'll just end up paying that same money at the store or maybe even as government subsidies to the businesses that can't run without the near slave labor these people provide.


.lm.

OK, no more opinions from me on the immigration issue. But I can't let you get away with this utter nonsense. This is the plain and simple truth, and frankly, you guys should do a little homework before spouting off so much bullshit.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Now if you want to contest the FACTS, go ahead. But, PLEASE, stop the silliness.

PS. If you knew ANYTHING about economics my friend you would know that wages will ALWAYS equate what the market will bare. That's silly LM. You should know better. What? Do you think that all of sudden people will pay 6.00 for an apple becausae it's hand picked by someone other than an illegal alien? Holy rebel without a clue! What happened to people's consumption of gasoline when it went to 4.00 a gallon here? Consumption went down and guess what? So does the price of the item out of necessity. whoa!

From the rest of that, it seems you don't. Got to remember, higher price is seen as better quality, it's not all about being as cheap as possible when you can bullshit rich kids into paying over the odds for something because they think they are getting something better.

[DrXparaMental]

Yeah, i already pointed that out.

DrX continues to go on and on about the cost of illegals but he may not have though through the implications of taking a hard line of actually kicking them out. I wonder how he'll feel about paying for produce when it's grown and processed by labor that demands a fair wage and benefits. The small portion of your tax dollar that you complain about going to illegals isn't paying for illegals to have a fucking party, it's paying for the greed of the businesses that are hiring them and is what's keeping the cost of your food affordable. Kick out the illegals and you'll just end up paying that same money at the store or maybe even as government subsidies to the businesses that can't run without the near slave labor these people provide.


.lm.

OK, no more opinions from me on the immigration issue. But I can't let you get away with this utter nonsense. This is the plain and simple truth, and frankly, you guys should do a little homework before spouting off so much bullshit.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Now if you want to contest the FACTS, go ahead. But, PLEASE, stop the silliness.

PS. If you knew ANYTHING about economics my friend you would know that wages will ALWAYS equate what the market will bare. That's silly LM. You should know better. What? Do you think that all of sudden people will pay 6.00 for an apple becausae it's hand picked by someone other than an illegal alien? Holy rebel without a clue! What happened to people's consumption of gasoline when it went to 4.00 a gallon here? Consumption went down and guess what? So does the price of the item out of necessity. whoa!

From the rest of that, it seems you don't. Got to remember, higher price is seen as better quality, it's not all about being as cheap as possible when you can bullshit rich kids into paying over the odds for something because they think they are getting something better.

You better stick to the chemistry.

[leisuremuffin]

Yeah, i already pointed that out.

DrX continues to go on and on about the cost of illegals but he may not have though through the implications of taking a hard line of actually kicking them out. I wonder how he'll feel about paying for produce when it's grown and processed by labor that demands a fair wage and benefits. The small portion of your tax dollar that you complain about going to illegals isn't paying for illegals to have a fucking party, it's paying for the greed of the businesses that are hiring them and is what's keeping the cost of your food affordable. Kick out the illegals and you'll just end up paying that same money at the store or maybe even as government subsidies to the businesses that can't run without the near slave labor these people provide.


.lm.

OK, no more opinions from me on the immigration issue. But I can't let you get away with this utter nonsense. This is the plain and simple truth, and frankly, you guys should do a little homework before spouting off so much bullshit.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Now if you want to contest the FACTS, go ahead. But, PLEASE, stop the silliness.

PS. If you knew ANYTHING about economics my friend you would know that wages will ALWAYS equate what the market will bare. That's silly LM. You should know better. What? Do you think that all of sudden people will pay 6.00 for an apple becausae it's hand picked by someone other than an illegal alien? Holy rebel without a clue! What happened to people's consumption of gasoline when it went to 4.00 a gallon here? Consumption went down and guess what? So does the price of the item out of necessity. whoa!

lol, you're funny. Do you have any idea how paltry a sum of 10.4 billion a year is in relation to the US governments spending? guess what, buddy, a bunch of legal American citizens are going to cost the taxpayers more than 787 billion! That's how much this "stimulus package" is. And guess what? That's separate from the 700 billion dollar bank bailout that happened already! hahaha! do you have any idea how much federal tax is collected every year? Well, this last fiscal year it was about 2.3 TRILLION. And at it's lowest recent point it was 1.66 trillion, that was 2003 during Bush's biggest tax cuts.

so OK, illegals cost us 10.4 billion a year. Now, lets go with your assumption that no one will pay $6 for an apple. OK, maybe you're right, but how do these businesses that in that scenario now have to pay legal employees a fair wage and benefits under federal law cover that cost? If you won't pay for it at the store, guess what, you're going to pay for it when the US government bails 'em out.



but y'know, yeah, those god dammed immigrants are costing us taxpayers money and taking our jobs. hahahha.



.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

i'd just like to point out that based on the information that you supplied of illegals costing us 10.4 billion a year that means that one year of paying for them is about 0.69% of what these economic bailouts are costing us. not even one percent.




.lm.

[DrXparaMental]

i'd just like to point out that based on the information that you supplied of illegals costing us 10.4 billion a year that means that one year of paying for them is about 0.69% of what these economic bailouts are costing us. not even one percent.




.lm.

but still, is it a good thing, or is it a bad thing? That's 10.4 billion we could do without. And yes, as I already stated, revolution is the ONLY real answer. What do we do about it?

I will state for the record however that 69 is my favorite number.

[leisuremuffin]

good or bad i can assure you it will cost the government way more than 10.4 billion a year to try to find and kick them all out. And then what? Like i said, what happens to those businesses that are reliant on these peoples near slave labor?


I'm sure not joining any revolution that thinks that illegal immigration is even close to the biggest problem we're facing.


also, how about this even before these huge bailouts: According to the Cato Institute, the U.S. federal government spent $92 billion on corporate welfare during fiscal year 2006. Recipients included Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, and General Electric.

that's 9 times what was spent on illegals, where's your outrage??? Go ahead and tell me about all of the great things those companies are doing to enhance our economy, how many jobs they provide, and how that money trickles down. Then take a look at what the fuck is really going on around you. If that philosophy worked, we wouldn't be in the pile of shit we're in right now.



the bottom line, in my opinion these illegal immigrants are just people who are going through harder times than you or I and are trying to hustle to survive. Does it cost the taxpayers some money, sure. Is it a great evil in the world? Hardly. Especially when compared to all of the other things going on. Fix the bleeding axe wounds in our system and then we can talk about cleaning up these paper cuts.

when people act like illegal immigrants are bankrupting the country, they are either uninformed, willfully ignorant, or have another agenda.


.lm.