Is Ableton Live complete overkill for my needs?

[TXBDan]

Hey guys,

My background is in playing guitar and playing in "normal" indie/rock/punk bands. My drummer and I moved to a Boston apartment where we have to be quiet so the drum set is replaced with an electronic Roland kit, and my amp is replaced with Guitar Rig 3. Kinda sad, but kinda fun. We just want to mess around and record, etc. I currently use GarageBand on my MBP but i've also ran a studio for a bit where i used Cubase SX on the PC. I've never really messed with any electronic music.

But now that we're "studio based", its a little boring so messing and learning about new things sounds like fun. I'm an engineer and a techie and like buttons to push, and there seems to be a heck of a lot of that in this world. I'm not interested in "techno" dancey stuff, i'm more interested in stuff like Animal Collective or simpler things. I guess i don't know yet because i haven't made anything electronic before.

Anyway, I'm thinking about buying some new software like Logic, but then i saw Ableton so i've been playing with the demo.. I just can' get my head around everything. I know Ableton can be a simple multitrack recorder and MIDI sequencer so it seems like that covers a lot of Logic/Cubase, etcs bases. Then it has a sampler, synths, and all sorts of other stuff. I also kind of like the real time loop editing.. seems fun. But Ableton is not cheap and i have no plans or real desire to play anything electronic live like DJing or whatever. Is Ableton too much for my needs? Can anyone recommend anything else i should consider?

[McQ714]

There is literally nothing like Live. If you're into live performance, you can't go wrong. It was never intended to be for "techno dancey stuff", but more for guys like you. DJs and electronic musicians just found the tools in Live to be exactly what they needed to perform on stage. First and foremost, it's a recording application geared toward live performance and improvisation. The ability to change things on the fly instead of sticking to a script as is the case with most DAWs, is priceless and hardly overkill. It is one of the most widely used pieces of software these days, even though some say it can't be used to finish a project. The more you use it though, you'll realize that there is no quicker way to get your ideas down then to fire up Live and just start playing. Throw in a basic drum or percussion loop and start jamming with it. I don't see how Live could possibly be overkill for anyone.

That being said, I do use Live for electronic music and DJ sets and found it to be a lot more fun than your standard DJing software. So if you ever thought about throwing together some "techno dancey stuff", you'd have your bases covered. If you do decide that Live isn't for you, go with Logic, not Cubase. Just an opinion there! Don't want to get into my reasons.

[Aequitas123]

im also more into indie/rock stuff then electronic music. also big into Animal collective.

Use Live, you'll love it.

[TXBDan]

Thats cool, thanks. I didn't mean to be offensive by saying "techno dancy" stuff. I'm just really a noob to electronic music and don't know any other words. haha.


Hrmm. So what if i thought of it this way.. How much of the Live paradigm is live oriented. If i don't use it live am i still wasting my time? But then i guess i don't even know what "live" means. I'm thinking like puttng on live DJ shows at parties or something. Like running a set. But maybe Live could also mean just jamming w/ my drummer at home. Live as in improvisation. That sense sounds quite useful and fun.

What got me thinking was all the stuff i've been listening to in the "post your songs made with Live" section. Some of it is really cool and impressive, but at the end of the day, thats not really what i'm into. But i do think the Animal Collective "My Girls" video is bad ass. I like MGMT if that points in any sort of direction. So maybe i just need more exposure to live electronic performances. Surely the more you know about it, the more you'll appreciate it.

[McQ714]

lol.. i really didn't think you were being offensive at all. i just think it's funny when people just say techno instead of electronic music. we cool dawg! stick with Live, you'll be happy you did!

[Aequitas123]

What Live is really good at is providing a very creative medium for any kind of music. I dont use Live live. I use it for recording and composing.

[DaddyHam]

Not sure what specific roland drum kit your drummer has, but if you get yourself a nice little interface like an M-audio uno, you can rig the drums up to Ableton's drum rack pretty quickly. I've got a roland TD 3 kit and it basically auto maps, I'm sure its probably the same for all roland models. Throw on some of Ableton's session drums or create your own and you create some pretty interesting percussive material. I'm running ableton on a macbook and I don't experience any noticeable latency; the program is just so versatile.

[TXBDan]

I guess i still don't get it.

Could you guys maybe give me an example of how it works. From like say a melody or beat in your head.... then what.

Would it be good for two ppl trying to come up with something? Say my friend on electronic drums and me on guitar. Normally i'd make up some kinda riff, he'd make some drums fit, maybe sing on it. i'd work out more chords/riffs. We don't need software for that. I assume Ableton can't help there can it? BUT what if we hook up my drummer's electronic kit to some samples in Ableton. He makes some beats.. and i want to mess w/ say a keyboard synth (we don't yet have a keyboard or midi controller, but my gf is interested in learning piano so we'll likely get one soon). How would the looping work with a live drummer? Can it? He'd just keep recording over and over his own loop. So maybe it doesn't work so well for live drums..? Unless we just straight recorded it like a normal multitrack. But then we don't need Ableton.

Is Ableton best for when you're by yourself and you just want to mess around and try stuff? Thats cool and powerful too. Is there any value in it for a guitar player?

How would a "rock" band use Ableton? Would they make up their songs and record it traditionally. Possibly record it in Ableton. Then later use Ableton's electronic/loop section to add the electronic bits?

I know these are stupid questions, but i still don't really get what Ableton is... hah. I watched the demo on the Ableton website of the guy making a song from scratch. It was cool and looks fun, but thats not totally what i'm after. Maybe i just need a cheap used synth and I can record it into my mixes

[TXBDan]

Not sure what specific roland drum kit your drummer has, but if you get yourself a nice little interface like an M-audio uno, you can rig the drums up to Ableton's drum rack pretty quickly. I've got a roland TD 3 kit and it basically auto maps, I'm sure its probably the same for all roland models. Throw on some of Ableton's session drums or create your own and you create some pretty interesting percussive material. I'm running ableton on a macbook and I don't experience any noticeable latency; the program is just so versatile.

Ha! He has a TD3, too. I have a Presonus audio/MIDI interface so we're set there. I'm assuming we can just run the TD3's MIDI out into my interface into Ableton, right? We don't need anything additional right? Very cool. Can you elaborate on how you use the drums w/ Ableton? Do you record long tracks or use the kit to create loops?

[DaddyHam]

Yup should be no problem. Check your TD3 Manual to see what button on the TD3 interface you have to hold when you power on to go into midi control mode, I can't remember which it is and I'm not at my drum kit. Generally, I use it with Ableton's Session Drums, as a starting point anyway. From the kits in session drums I like to replace, for example, the kick with an 808 kick, maybe manipulate the crashes in abletons sampler to reverse the crash sound or something, (the possibilities are really endless) and then create 1 - 4 bar drum loops. From there I have a korg padkontrol that I like to overdub the loops with other percussive sounds. I got this idea from the ableton session drum video:

http://www.ableton.com/session-drums

The video explains you can go in and fix up the midi and whatnot so its great for studio stuff. Then you can freeze the midi clip, flatten it, and then bam you have a wave file that you can compress the shit out of and then go back and slice it up or whatever. just talking about this makes me want to ditch the job search and run home. If you wanted to record a full drum track you would have absolutely no problem. Also, I'm fairly certain you can midi map the pads to trigger another loop, but I actually have never tried that for whatever reason? Also there are some guys out there using the new looper as well to do some pretty interesting stuff but I haven't ventured there yet.

[TXBDan]

Very interesting, thanks.


Now that I've thought for a bit, i think what i'm hoping for from Ableton is just enough "new and different" to spark some creativity. Looking at a screen of blank tracks in a multitrack DAW is pretty boring and uninspiring. It seems like i'm not ready for that screen yet if i don't even have an idea. So it seems like Ableton is cool in the tinkering and trying and messing around stage while i'm working out what i want. So if its true that that is where it shines, then it seems like a pretty valuable link in the process from nothing, to thinking of something, to playing with it, perfecting it, and then finally at the end record it. If it helps with brainstorming and actually creating, then its valuable.

[TXBDan]

Saturday bump.

Thanks a lot so far guys. I'm looking for any feedback from guys who track guitars or rock music, etc.

[McQ714]

i almost forgot but my cousin's band used Live to record some demos. they asked me to polish them a bit. it was kind of a chore to do but that's because they used Live Lite and had recorded the drums using only one condensor and one dynamic mic. anyway finished product sounded decent enough.

[lapieuvre]

Hi,

I use Live with guitars that I record, and drums that I program (EzDrummer). I do pop/rock/alternative/world/lounge. First of all I am a big Sonar fan. But when I discovered Live, I just put Sonar aside for composing. It is such a creative software that lets your left brain work. I record riffs in session view, then when I have my verses, chorus, bridge, intro, etc. I just record the structure in arrangement view as I feel it. I can try different structures each time, jam on my riffs, the "editing" of the structure is not copy/paste, it is "called" by launching scenes in session view... Left brain only.

I never found anything better for creation.

And I didn't talk about sound design using simpler or sampler, but that is another story