OT; Any one know any thing about setting up networks?

[Homebelly]

I work in an educational institution.
At the moment it is of about average size, appx five to six hundred students
and about thirty faculty.
The school has realized that it needs to upgrade its computer resources, but is kicking up a fuss about the cost.
I have mentioned that we should get a wire less net work set up for the students and tutors.
The IT department have responded with a flat NO!
When pressed they tell us that our system, as it stands, is not set up for wireless and that if it were to be it would put too much strain on the existing system as well as open up the system to viruses and so on. They also tell me that there is no way to police the system and that it opens up other opportunities to abuse it in regards down loading and piggy backing the signal from out side the school and that the cost is prohibitive.
Now, my reasoning is that these things already exist in the other teaching and learning establishments, as well as in
many of the libraries and most of the coffee shops in and around Auckland.
So, is any one able to give me a broad based reason for not having wireless.
Or any laymen information that might back up my course?

On another note, due to this latest request i have also been informed that i am no longer allowed to use my Mac to access the schools net work or internet
as, and i quote "No other professionally run net work would allow this" which i find astonishing.
Is this true? are other people on this board not allowed to use there lap tops at work?

Cheers.

[Winterpark]

that's crazy and narrow minded.

we run a wireless network at my school. no issues.

incidently... we run macs... it's actually really secure, as we have it set up so it only recognizes individual computer IDs.

each student has an individual login, where you can track when they are on the network, and how much they are downloading.

I wasn't in charge of setting it up, so i can't really give you any technical how to do it... but that response from your IT people seems like they can't be bothered to do a bit of research.

[leonard]

reason not to: it's prohibitively slow.
at my uni we have almost campus wide wireless. at least thats what it says on the brochure. it's always way to slow, although mostly in the library. if you access from within some buildings it's ok. even getting onto uni systems like the library catalogue or the student email/course section is so slow as to be non functioning most of the time.
reason to: convenient. as far as security issues go you can lock down any wireless network as hard as you can land line. almost. i'm not an expert on that but at my uni again we have to log on through the novell site and have restricted access to downloads but web acces is ok (when it works).
as far as macs go thats just weird. bell end it knobs being knobs.

[longjohns]

we have it set up so it only recognizes individual computer IDs.

should be fairly trivial to spoof a MAC address if someone got a list of clients or copied it from another computer on the network

[longjohns]

anyway, is it really a concern to have an ultra-secure university network?

scared that someone might interfere with all the porn and file sharing?

[fishmonkey]

it is possible to do it well, but it will cost real money and increase the IT dept's workload considerably dealing with increased monitoring, bandwidth issues, and support for end users having trouble connecting, etc...

sounds like they can't be bothered with the challenge and/or don't have the cash...

[vicz]

On another note, due to this latest request i have also been informed that i am no longer allowed to use my Mac to access the schools net work or internet
as, and i quote "No other professionally run net work would allow this" which i find astonishing.
Is this true? are other people on this board not allowed to use there lap tops at work?

This might have been true 10 years ago when mac networking was based on Appletalk which could cause problems for old Windows based networks. However since all macs now use TCP/IP not only would it not cause problems, no-one would easily be able to tell. Most of the risk to the schools systems would come from viruses and other malware introduced from student's laptops, and of course these are far more common on Windows.

Many academic institutions go down the linux/open source route for their IT being both cheap and secure. Maybe you could persuade a local college to take it on as a project?

To do what you want to do well would need either competent professionals, which would be where the bulk of the cost would be, or enthusiastic and informed enthusiasts. Sounds like your IT team are neither

[twisted-space]

Setting up networks is what I do for a living.
It's possible to set up a fast, reliable and secure wireless lan but it will have a significant cost in terms of time and money. It sounds like your IT dept is short on both. Of course they could be lazy or clueless (or both), but it would be unfair to come to that conclusion without supporting evidence.
If I was running your school lan on a tight budget and limited resources, I wouldn't allow private machines on either, pc or mac makes no difference.
Sounds to me like you don't understand or appreciate the amount of work and money it can take to run a network like that properly.

[BoNGoMaN]

Whatever solution is recommended, budget is always a concern of the client, in this case the school.
Going wireless for every machine would depend on whether the existing machines have wireless capability or that they are considering replacing all the machines. If they were going to use existing machines it would add the extra expense of installing wireless network adapters.

IMHO wireless is best used for mobile devices i.e. laptops, smart phones, pda's etc or when cabling can't be present in the LAN (Local Area Network) Environment, cables are best for every other device that doesn't move.

IT departments like control, adding systems that they are unfamiliar with or have no way of monitoring poses a potential risk to the the rest of their network, hence them not allowing you use your mac (this would be the same response if you had a windows laptop). They do not know what applications you have installed or if your machine has been compromised.

If they are just being archaic and difficult to deal with then they need to do some research and update their skills. But the response they have given you is very standard in the corp/govt environment.

However it is possible for them to meet all of your suggestions and maintain a very secure monitored environment, including allowing your mac to access some of the network resources.

Get a business case together, it will help you in this situation.

[Homebelly]

I'm not proposing every machine is wireless.
There is already a hard wired LAN system.
This is in two layers, one layer is only available on the public machines.
The other layer is only available on the faculty machines.
All i am proposing is a wireless system for laptops.

At the moment the school is talking about investing in more computers to meet it present needs.
My reasoning is, that as the school keeps on expanding, why not just invest in a wireless system now
rather than keep buying more and more computers. I see this working on two levels.
1. Its a one time only cost to set up the system. Plus, Isn't the maintenance issue going to be the same
if the system is a WiFi, or lots of hard wired machines?
2. It will save space, another issue the school is facing is that there are very few common areas,
and a lot of those get utilized as make shift teaching areas.

My proposal is to get rid of the computer lab, spread the existing computers around the school, then
set up a WiFi network to allow those with lap tops to be able to access the inter web.

[Superchibisan]

um, whoever is running that joint, is... smoking a joint... or something.

whatever the case, tell them that it will cost considerably more to create a wired network on their campus. about 5x more. wireless will be most efficient and yes, you can connect a mac cause its an fing computer... not some sort of bomb.

anyways, you management/supervisors are morons. i would inform them of that.

[suspended childhood]

they probably dont want PERSONAL computers on their network, and I agree. Its their network, they make the rules.

As far as wireless, why not create its own security zone so the traffic is seperate from the real users/ main assets?

[Homebelly]

As far as wireless, why not create its own security zone so the traffic is seperate from the real users/ main assets?

This is my main request.
But they keep coming back with the answer no.

[Minimal Justice System]

Having worked in the IT dept of a major UK Insurance company I can say that what you are asking for would be a massive piece of work for your IT dept that would have considerable costs.... Chances are that your school will not have the budget for something like this let alone the IT resource to keep it running smoothly once implemented. The first question to be considered when an IT dept is looking into this kind of change is what advantages/disadvantages would it have over the existing system and I can guarantee that the disadvantages will vastly outwiegh the advantages once data securuty etc is taken into account. I can see no reason other than convenience for the change you're looking for and I'm afraid that the money it would take could probably be much better spent?

Sorry to side with the IT guys but people often don't consider the full picture when thinking about these things.

[Homebelly]

Having worked in the IT dept of a major UK Insurance company I can say that what you are asking for would be a massive piece of work for your IT dept that would have considerable costs.... Chances are that your school will not have the budget for something like this let alone the IT resource to keep it running smoothly once implemented. The first question to be considered when an IT dept is looking into this kind of change is what advantages/disadvantages would it have over the existing system and I can guarantee that the disadvantages will vastly outwiegh the advantages once data securuty etc is taken into account. I can see no reason other than convenience for the change you're looking for and I'm afraid that the money it would take could probably be much better spent?

Sorry to side with the IT guys but people often don't consider the full picture when thinking about these things.

Im not wanting to have access to the the mainframe, just email.
Is what you say here still the issue?