also want to chime in on finding an APC40 at GC. Got mine about a 3 weeks ago from the local GC - went in expecting them to be sold out (they were sold out @ GC online at the time), and found 3 sitting on a display.
my lucky day. (well not really - a GC 10% off coupon came in the mail the next day - i had already reg'd Live and mashed the unit around for a bit!)
APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
-
corporation
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: international!
- Contact:
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I just heard from thomann that I have to wait _another_ month until they can ship my unit! I'm thinking of asking my money back, surely there must be a way to purchase the damn thing sooner than that..
They should have postponed releasing the APC40 - it really sucks knowing something is out there and not being able to buy it.
They should have postponed releasing the APC40 - it really sucks knowing something is out there and not being able to buy it.
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I'm on the exact same spot my friend. Not with thomann tho. The shop i preordered it from says it should be with me next week... how much i believe that in a scale from 1 to 10?? 2? How much do i hope is true?? 10000!!!!djwack wrote:I just heard from thomann that I have to wait _another_ month until they can ship my unit! I'm thinking of asking my money back, surely there must be a way to purchase the damn thing sooner than that..
They should have postponed releasing the APC40 - it really sucks knowing something is out there and not being able to buy it.
I'm really tired of waiting....
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I've started using the APC and it's all very interesting,
I just have to say/ask a few:
1)------------------------------
The MIDI data sent from the encoders is different and this creates some problems. The Cue Level Encoder sends smooth data with acceleration infos. The Track and Device Encoders data send data from 0 to 127, and I understand that's the best way for them to work when you're managing devices params and Pan/Sends. BUT...
what about if I MIDI_remap them on parameters like Clip Start, Clip End, Loop Start Position, Loop End, Clip Scrubbing, etc. ? For those controls the difference between controlling them through the Cue_Level Encoder instead of any other (Track or Device) Encoder it's huge. With 17 endless encoders can we really use only 1 for some parameters? For real???????
Try controlling one of these parameters on a very long clip and you'll soon realize that all the "You can map any encoder or button to whatever assignable parameter in Live" it's far from being true... Or, better... It's true that you can map them but Live can't assure you that the mapping works how it is supposed to. If it's not possible to change directly what the APC is actually sending, then Live should be smart enough to know how to map the incoming data to the control that it is actually assigned to.
2)-------------------------------
Whenever an encoder is used as input for an on/off button action... shouldn't Live be smarter and map all 0-63 values to off and all 64/127 to on? Shouldn't be so hard because the behavior should be similar to some other switches (Like the Frequency Shifter Mode Selector). Now just a little movement of the encoder triggers the on/off switch multiple times and this is very bad. You have to be careful and slow to switch between on and off only one time. Also there's the risk that whenever you are tweaking some other encoders you touch a bit the on/off encoder and imagine the results... (the fact that I've recorded these results
still doesn't convince me that this is the right way to handle the switches)
3)-------------------------------
what about giving some visual feedback of the controls you're acting on?
I'm thinking mainly about the instruments here. Take Operator as an Example, the device control banks on the APC are mapped to the various sections of the Instrument parameters, and surely after a while you get used to the encoder/parameter relationship
BUT
everyone looks at the parameters once in a while. don't you think?
4)-------------------------------
What about mapping some parameters missing from the default mappings?
I understand that this is difficult for instruments or Effects that already have a huge amount of parameters (Like some Instruments). Or that have been organized in logical device control banks (like Filter Delay banks divided by input)
BUT...
what about the simple Auto Filter? only one device param banks and there are still five parameters missing.
what about Filter Delay? three device banks and still missing some switches.
Auto Filter and filter Delay are just examples of devices that do not require all the 8 assignable device control banks but still have things that force you to go back to using the mouse
because can't be completely controlled with the default mappings.
what about all the others?
Mapping for some Instruments like Collision is totally different from the Instrument Mappings Reference and it's a total mess.
5)-----------------------------
It is given that:
Only a Clip x Track can Play.
The Bank/Select buttons do not affect the selected scene.
If the Select On Launch option is On in the preferences you jump to a clip whenever you click to launch it.
If you select a Track in the APC this:
- doesn't select/focus the clip that is actually playing on that track (and I think that this should at least be given as an option, just like the 'Select On Launch')
- doesn't give focus to the Main Area containing the Tracks, this means that if you want to open a group_track you still have to use the mouse...
---------------------------------------------
I don't say/ask anything about the possibility to choose between different type of parameter mappings presets or preconfigured banks.
I also don't say/ask anything about a lot of other possibilities because I know that you'll answer that this are tasks for M4L.
I know and I'm waiting it.
BUT still...
I think that the APC, given it's name, should be better supported without requiring the use of something else for functions and behaviors that should definitely be already there.
Also one last question, even if I know that everything is kept secret...
When we'll buy M4L, would we finally be able to write patches to control some parts of Live like the browser or parameters that can't be controlled via shortcuts/KEY/MIDI, like the Launch Mode Settings of a Clip?
Thanks in advance
Bye Jo
I just have to say/ask a few:
1)------------------------------
The MIDI data sent from the encoders is different and this creates some problems. The Cue Level Encoder sends smooth data with acceleration infos. The Track and Device Encoders data send data from 0 to 127, and I understand that's the best way for them to work when you're managing devices params and Pan/Sends. BUT...
what about if I MIDI_remap them on parameters like Clip Start, Clip End, Loop Start Position, Loop End, Clip Scrubbing, etc. ? For those controls the difference between controlling them through the Cue_Level Encoder instead of any other (Track or Device) Encoder it's huge. With 17 endless encoders can we really use only 1 for some parameters? For real???????
Try controlling one of these parameters on a very long clip and you'll soon realize that all the "You can map any encoder or button to whatever assignable parameter in Live" it's far from being true... Or, better... It's true that you can map them but Live can't assure you that the mapping works how it is supposed to. If it's not possible to change directly what the APC is actually sending, then Live should be smart enough to know how to map the incoming data to the control that it is actually assigned to.
2)-------------------------------
Whenever an encoder is used as input for an on/off button action... shouldn't Live be smarter and map all 0-63 values to off and all 64/127 to on? Shouldn't be so hard because the behavior should be similar to some other switches (Like the Frequency Shifter Mode Selector). Now just a little movement of the encoder triggers the on/off switch multiple times and this is very bad. You have to be careful and slow to switch between on and off only one time. Also there's the risk that whenever you are tweaking some other encoders you touch a bit the on/off encoder and imagine the results... (the fact that I've recorded these results
still doesn't convince me that this is the right way to handle the switches)3)-------------------------------
what about giving some visual feedback of the controls you're acting on?
I'm thinking mainly about the instruments here. Take Operator as an Example, the device control banks on the APC are mapped to the various sections of the Instrument parameters, and surely after a while you get used to the encoder/parameter relationship
BUT
everyone looks at the parameters once in a while. don't you think?
4)-------------------------------
What about mapping some parameters missing from the default mappings?
I understand that this is difficult for instruments or Effects that already have a huge amount of parameters (Like some Instruments). Or that have been organized in logical device control banks (like Filter Delay banks divided by input)
BUT...
what about the simple Auto Filter? only one device param banks and there are still five parameters missing.
what about Filter Delay? three device banks and still missing some switches.
Auto Filter and filter Delay are just examples of devices that do not require all the 8 assignable device control banks but still have things that force you to go back to using the mouse
because can't be completely controlled with the default mappings.what about all the others?
Mapping for some Instruments like Collision is totally different from the Instrument Mappings Reference and it's a total mess.
5)-----------------------------
It is given that:
Only a Clip x Track can Play.
The Bank/Select buttons do not affect the selected scene.
If the Select On Launch option is On in the preferences you jump to a clip whenever you click to launch it.
If you select a Track in the APC this:
- doesn't select/focus the clip that is actually playing on that track (and I think that this should at least be given as an option, just like the 'Select On Launch')
- doesn't give focus to the Main Area containing the Tracks, this means that if you want to open a group_track you still have to use the mouse...
---------------------------------------------
I don't say/ask anything about the possibility to choose between different type of parameter mappings presets or preconfigured banks.
I also don't say/ask anything about a lot of other possibilities because I know that you'll answer that this are tasks for M4L.
I know and I'm waiting it.
BUT still...
I think that the APC, given it's name, should be better supported without requiring the use of something else for functions and behaviors that should definitely be already there.
Also one last question, even if I know that everything is kept secret...
When we'll buy M4L, would we finally be able to write patches to control some parts of Live like the browser or parameters that can't be controlled via shortcuts/KEY/MIDI, like the Launch Mode Settings of a Clip?
Thanks in advance
Bye Jo
-
jeffplaysmoog
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:18 am
- Location: Gilbertsville, NY
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
check out the second video, it should answer some of your questions...
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/06/1 ... handshake/
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/06/1 ... handshake/
Mac Book Pro 2.33ghz, 2gig Ram, OS 10.5, Ableton Live 8 Suite, APC40
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I already saw that video multiple times and it surely is very interesting and contains smart ideas.
BUT I don't think it doesn't answer very much of my questions...
whatever Stray411 does beautifully with his APC (for the most powerful stuff using external programs anyway...)
what he does or how he does it doesn't change these facts explained in the previous post:
1) the Cue Encoder and Track/Device Encoders sends data in different ways.
when mapping a midi control, Live should behave accordingly to which APC encoder is controlling it.
2) the Encoders when used as on/off buttons should behave as if they are simple switches between two values.
3) you should be given the option to have a visual feedback from the interface (when you tweak a certain parameter, that parameter jumps on screen and is visible)
4) operating from the controllers should try to free you from the mouse as much as it's possible.
the 'reference' should give you exact informations on how something works, not gibberish.
5) one of the thing I've already done, and that stray411 does in it's video it's to use the Bank/Select buttons to go through the scenes... this was also explained, in a different way (and smartly using the cue encoder instead of another encoder), in the tips page on AKAI site. Yes, this gives you a way of visualize a specific clip, because you can navigate the Tracks, then the scenes, finally selecting a clip. BUT, if you are playing five clips all in five different scenes try going from one to another, to another, to another... with the option to autoselect the playing clip on the selected track all becomes a lot smoother.
I can surely do some of these things with MAX or Bome_MTPro,
BUT
I think that these and other softwares around should be used to do something more...
not to give the controller/software couple some functions they're supposed to have
IMHO
out of the box
Thanks again
Jo
BUT I don't think it doesn't answer very much of my questions...
whatever Stray411 does beautifully with his APC (for the most powerful stuff using external programs anyway...)
what he does or how he does it doesn't change these facts explained in the previous post:
1) the Cue Encoder and Track/Device Encoders sends data in different ways.
when mapping a midi control, Live should behave accordingly to which APC encoder is controlling it.
2) the Encoders when used as on/off buttons should behave as if they are simple switches between two values.
3) you should be given the option to have a visual feedback from the interface (when you tweak a certain parameter, that parameter jumps on screen and is visible)
4) operating from the controllers should try to free you from the mouse as much as it's possible.
the 'reference' should give you exact informations on how something works, not gibberish.
5) one of the thing I've already done, and that stray411 does in it's video it's to use the Bank/Select buttons to go through the scenes... this was also explained, in a different way (and smartly using the cue encoder instead of another encoder), in the tips page on AKAI site. Yes, this gives you a way of visualize a specific clip, because you can navigate the Tracks, then the scenes, finally selecting a clip. BUT, if you are playing five clips all in five different scenes try going from one to another, to another, to another... with the option to autoselect the playing clip on the selected track all becomes a lot smoother.
I can surely do some of these things with MAX or Bome_MTPro,
BUT
I think that these and other softwares around should be used to do something more...
not to give the controller/software couple some functions they're supposed to have
IMHO
out of the box
Thanks again
Jo
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
Rez311 wrote:Can I eq mix between 2 or more tracks easily on the APC 40? It looks like the knobs on the APC40 give me that functionality but in the demo video those knobs are used only with 1 specific selected device on one channel at a time. I'd like to work EQs on multiple channels at the same time... does anyone know if i can do that?
I'd really like an answer to this as well!!!
As far as I can tell... and I don't have my apc yet!, you can't do this with the default mapping...
However, I'd imagine you could remap e.g. one of the send banks so you can do this... it's just not a default setting, which is kinda a huge oversite imo!
anyone using the apc for djing care to clarify?
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I agree with all of your issues with the APC. I've owned one since launch day and have been loving it and totally frustrated at the same time. I am especially annoyed by the issues you highlight in points 3-5. My only workaround has been with point 4 where I have been making custom device racks so that I can use all 8 encoders (i.e. Beat Repeat does not put the most obvious 8 controls on Bank 1 so I make a new rack that is just one Beat Repeat module and remap the 8 macro controls.)jo_paglia wrote:I've started using the APC and it's all very interesting,
I just have to say/ask a few:
1)------------------------------
The MIDI data sent from the encoders is different and this creates some problems. The Cue Level Encoder sends smooth data with acceleration infos. The Track and Device Encoders data send data from 0 to 127, and I understand that's the best way for them to work when you're managing devices params and Pan/Sends. BUT...
what about if I MIDI_remap them on parameters like Clip Start, Clip End, Loop Start Position, Loop End, Clip Scrubbing, etc. ? For those controls the difference between controlling them through the Cue_Level Encoder instead of any other (Track or Device) Encoder it's huge. With 17 endless encoders can we really use only 1 for some parameters? For real???????
Try controlling one of these parameters on a very long clip and you'll soon realize that all the "You can map any encoder or button to whatever assignable parameter in Live" it's far from being true... Or, better... It's true that you can map them but Live can't assure you that the mapping works how it is supposed to. If it's not possible to change directly what the APC is actually sending, then Live should be smart enough to know how to map the incoming data to the control that it is actually assigned to.
2)-------------------------------
Whenever an encoder is used as input for an on/off button action... shouldn't Live be smarter and map all 0-63 values to off and all 64/127 to on? Shouldn't be so hard because the behavior should be similar to some other switches (Like the Frequency Shifter Mode Selector). Now just a little movement of the encoder triggers the on/off switch multiple times and this is very bad. You have to be careful and slow to switch between on and off only one time. Also there's the risk that whenever you are tweaking some other encoders you touch a bit the on/off encoder and imagine the results... (the fact that I've recorded these results
3)-------------------------------
what about giving some visual feedback of the controls you're acting on?
I'm thinking mainly about the instruments here. Take Operator as an Example, the device control banks on the APC are mapped to the various sections of the Instrument parameters, and surely after a while you get used to the encoder/parameter relationship
BUT
everyone looks at the parameters once in a while. don't you think?
4)-------------------------------
What about mapping some parameters missing from the default mappings?
I understand that this is difficult for instruments or Effects that already have a huge amount of parameters (Like some Instruments). Or that have been organized in logical device control banks (like Filter Delay banks divided by input)
BUT...
what about the simple Auto Filter? only one device param banks and there are still five parameters missing.
what about Filter Delay? three device banks and still missing some switches.
Auto Filter and filter Delay are just examples of devices that do not require all the 8 assignable device control banks but still have things that force you to go back to using the mouse
what about all the others?
Mapping for some Instruments like Collision is totally different from the Instrument Mappings Reference and it's a total mess.
5)-----------------------------
It is given that:
Only a Clip x Track can Play.
The Bank/Select buttons do not affect the selected scene.
If the Select On Launch option is On in the preferences you jump to a clip whenever you click to launch it.
If you select a Track in the APC this:
- doesn't select/focus the clip that is actually playing on that track (and I think that this should at least be given as an option, just like the 'Select On Launch')
- doesn't give focus to the Main Area containing the Tracks, this means that if you want to open a group_track you still have to use the mouse...
---------------------------------------------
I don't say/ask anything about the possibility to choose between different type of parameter mappings presets or preconfigured banks.
I also don't say/ask anything about a lot of other possibilities because I know that you'll answer that this are tasks for M4L.
I know and I'm waiting it.
BUT still...
I think that the APC, given it's name, should be better supported without requiring the use of something else for functions and behaviors that should definitely be already there.
Also one last question, even if I know that everything is kept secret...
When we'll buy M4L, would we finally be able to write patches to control some parts of Live like the browser or parameters that can't be controlled via shortcuts/KEY/MIDI, like the Launch Mode Settings of a Clip?
Thanks in advance
Bye Jo
Your #5 point is so right on. It pisses me off to no end. Ableton, please fix this ASAP! And it should be a fix for Live 7. The APC is designed to work properly on 7 and this omission is not a missing feature, it is a BUG!!
Furthermore, I have still not found a way to EQ more than 1 track at a time without remapping Pan and Send controls, which is a total bummer. At this point I think I am just going to have to spring for a Behringer BCR2000 for these controls. Sucks because I kinda wanted to keep the rig as compact as possible, but I think this just might be the way it is. Anyone have any other ideas?
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I agree about point 4...
Racks/Macro_Controls can be used... and they are really good!
the thing is you normally build them up along the way...
having 'everything' mapped before/while choosing what_to_work_with
and what_to_leave_out just allows for a smoother process.
it's a pity but...
racks/chains trees don't seem too APC friendly either.
jo
Racks/Macro_Controls can be used... and they are really good!
the thing is you normally build them up along the way...
having 'everything' mapped before/while choosing what_to_work_with
and what_to_leave_out just allows for a smoother process.
it's a pity but...
racks/chains trees don't seem too APC friendly either.
jo
-
sacredgeometry
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:10 am
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
yes get rid of panning or one of the sends and you are able to have low mid high for both tracks are 2 others possibly for gainAL_X wrote:Rez311 wrote:Can I eq mix between 2 or more tracks easily on the APC 40? It looks like the knobs on the APC40 give me that functionality but in the demo video those knobs are used only with 1 specific selected device on one channel at a time. I'd like to work EQs on multiple channels at the same time... does anyone know if i can do that?
I'd really like an answer to this as well!!!
As far as I can tell... and I don't have my apc yet!, you can't do this with the default mapping...
However, I'd imagine you could remap e.g. one of the send banks so you can do this... it's just not a default setting, which is kinda a huge oversite imo!
anyone using the apc for djing care to clarify?
peace
brian
Peace + Hugs
Brian
Brian
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
im kind of an ableton newb...
before i got my apc 40 i used to dj from traktor pro with a Numark Omni Control midi controller.
i started learning how to use live 8 about 2 months ago, and have become pretty familiar with the program, i thought that having the apc 40 would make things a lot easier, but i was actually wrong... i get so confused with the way it loads different effects, i feel like its very illogical.
(maybe im just too much of an ableton newb still)
i really like the apc 40, actually, i mapped it for traktor pro, and have gone back to using traktor.. and i must say, the way i have it mapped for traktor allows me to do quite a bit... i can do everything from load tracks, loop live, load effects with the knobs set to the most obvious and intuitive parameters, literally everything in traktor pro can be controlled without touching my computer. the only problem is that i dont touch my trackpad often enough and my screen keeps going dark (power save mode lol).
im kind of bummed out that i dropped $400 for my apc 40 and im having such a difficult time using it in live, which is what its made for. i feel like it is made for djing tracks that you have produced and mixed in advance, especially since you cant equalize properly (without getting rid of pan or a send). im actually kind of sad and a little discouraged from using live because of this...
in addition, has anyone found a good case for the apc 40? i havent been able to find anything due to the unique size.. if anyone has anything they recommend please share a link!
thanks!
before i got my apc 40 i used to dj from traktor pro with a Numark Omni Control midi controller.
i started learning how to use live 8 about 2 months ago, and have become pretty familiar with the program, i thought that having the apc 40 would make things a lot easier, but i was actually wrong... i get so confused with the way it loads different effects, i feel like its very illogical.
(maybe im just too much of an ableton newb still)i really like the apc 40, actually, i mapped it for traktor pro, and have gone back to using traktor.. and i must say, the way i have it mapped for traktor allows me to do quite a bit... i can do everything from load tracks, loop live, load effects with the knobs set to the most obvious and intuitive parameters, literally everything in traktor pro can be controlled without touching my computer. the only problem is that i dont touch my trackpad often enough and my screen keeps going dark (power save mode lol).
im kind of bummed out that i dropped $400 for my apc 40 and im having such a difficult time using it in live, which is what its made for. i feel like it is made for djing tracks that you have produced and mixed in advance, especially since you cant equalize properly (without getting rid of pan or a send). im actually kind of sad and a little discouraged from using live because of this...
in addition, has anyone found a good case for the apc 40? i havent been able to find anything due to the unique size.. if anyone has anything they recommend please share a link!
thanks!
-
housemusiclover
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:54 pm
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
Put your effects into racks and define the macro controls yourself. I agree that the automatic mapping of Live's effects is a bit weird.
And if you need more knobs or faders for your eq-ing needs, buy a nanokontrol for 60$.
And if you need more knobs or faders for your eq-ing needs, buy a nanokontrol for 60$.
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
> 1) the Cue Encoder and Track/Device Encoders sends data in different ways.
> when mapping a midi control, Live should behave accordingly to which APC encoder is controlling it.
> 2) the Encoders when used as on/off buttons should behave as if they are simple switches between two values.
> racks/chains trees don't seem too APC friendly either.
+5 (everyone in the room, obviously all live users...)
Midi Mapping, whether instant/dynamic or manual, it's useless if data isn't mapped well.
Live could be made smart enough only when related to Controllers like APC where the midi messages of every control seems to be fixed in hardware... with other hardware where every specific knob or button can send 'any' midi message Live can't be so smart. Ableton could at least give the users some possibilities to tell how the software is supposed to manage the incoming data.
On/off switches are just useless working the way they work now on the APC
> 3) you should be given the option to have a visual feedback from the interface (when you tweak a certain parameter, that > parameter jumps on screen and is visible)
As an Industrial Designer couldn't agree more
Feedback is essential. You maybe disable it when you're playing on stage because it's more likely that you'll already be using well crafted Macro Controls by then. Definitely useful before that IMHO (not everyone in the room fully agrees).
> 4) operating from the controllers should try to free you from the mouse as much as it's possible.
> the 'reference' should give you exact information on how something works, not gibberish.
Agree with the 'gibberish' info about the mapping, and with the mapping itself, for Collision.
Analog, Operator, Electric are quite good as they are... apart for a few missing switches.
Sure they can offer some alternative mappings 'out of the box'.
I'm curious how the 'Best of Bank' 'de facto' 'non existent' 'instant mappings' 
could help...
> 5) one of the thing I've already done, and that stray411 does in it's video it's to use the Bank/Select buttons to go
> through the scenes... this was also explained, in a different way (and smartly using the cue encoder instead of another
> encoder), in the tips page on AKAI site. Yes, this gives you a way of visualize a specific clip, because you can
> navigate the Tracks, then the scenes, finally selecting a clip. BUT, if you are playing five clips all in five different
> scenes try going from one to another, to another, to another... with the option to autoselect the playing clip on the
> selected track all becomes a lot smoother.
Mixed opinions here on the way Bank/Select Buttons should work.
For some it's best the default behavior (just 'fly over' the scenes without selecting one...),
for others makes more sense to select scenes while going up and down ('a la stray411').
I guess it depends on the structure of your set.
I'm quite ok with the way the Bank/Select buttons already work now, even if it presents some issues.
The possibility of having the playing clip selected when selecting a track could be helpful.
There's a problem though, when you select a track that doesn't have playing clips you still need a way of selecting the scene containing the clip you want to check/tweak before it's launch...
I'd personally prefer have a pair of options/modes switchable 'on the fly'.
I guess that the easiest thing to do is to have a mode where clicking on a clip on the APC just selects it like when you just click on it (not on it's play button) on screen.
> Furthermore, I have still not found a way to EQ more than 1 track at a time without remapping Pan and Send controls,
> which is a total bummer. At this point I think I am just going to have to spring for a Behringer BCR2000 for these
> controls. Sucks because I kinda wanted to keep the rig as compact as possible, but I think this just might be the way it
> is. Anyone have any other ideas?
Someone here it's suggesting Macro Controls detached from a Rack/Chain but just as Group of Controls.
A Group of Controls that could be connected/related to parameters contained on more than one Track and/or Rack/Chain.
A Group of Controls that can then be used as a Device/Macro_Control_Bank in whatever track you through it in.
Some issues came up here and there, a smart public discussion of this should be more fruitful.
> I can surely do some of these things with MAX or Bome_MTPro,
> BUT
> I think that these and other softwares around should be used to do something more...
>not to give the controller/software couple some functions they're supposed to have
> IMHO
> out of the box
Huge debate here!
A couple of us here own Max and/or MTPro and/or others softwares and we are used to 'bend controllers to our will'
although there's a general agreement (especially from the less 'geeky' ones) on the fact that more could come 'out of the box' in terms of 'choices for the user' without having to become a pseudo-programmer
Let's hear from people at Ableton some comments!
Let's just hope they don't comment everything with the three letter acronym 'M4L'.
Fra
(Max, Paul, Dany and 'the unnameable')
> when mapping a midi control, Live should behave accordingly to which APC encoder is controlling it.
> 2) the Encoders when used as on/off buttons should behave as if they are simple switches between two values.
> racks/chains trees don't seem too APC friendly either.
+5 (everyone in the room, obviously all live users...)
Midi Mapping, whether instant/dynamic or manual, it's useless if data isn't mapped well.
Live could be made smart enough only when related to Controllers like APC where the midi messages of every control seems to be fixed in hardware... with other hardware where every specific knob or button can send 'any' midi message Live can't be so smart. Ableton could at least give the users some possibilities to tell how the software is supposed to manage the incoming data.
On/off switches are just useless working the way they work now on the APC
> 3) you should be given the option to have a visual feedback from the interface (when you tweak a certain parameter, that > parameter jumps on screen and is visible)
As an Industrial Designer couldn't agree more
Feedback is essential. You maybe disable it when you're playing on stage because it's more likely that you'll already be using well crafted Macro Controls by then. Definitely useful before that IMHO (not everyone in the room fully agrees).
> 4) operating from the controllers should try to free you from the mouse as much as it's possible.
> the 'reference' should give you exact information on how something works, not gibberish.
Agree with the 'gibberish' info about the mapping, and with the mapping itself, for Collision.
Analog, Operator, Electric are quite good as they are... apart for a few missing switches.
Sure they can offer some alternative mappings 'out of the box'.
I'm curious how the 'Best of Bank'
'de facto' 'non existent' 'instant mappings' could help...> 5) one of the thing I've already done, and that stray411 does in it's video it's to use the Bank/Select buttons to go
> through the scenes... this was also explained, in a different way (and smartly using the cue encoder instead of another
> encoder), in the tips page on AKAI site. Yes, this gives you a way of visualize a specific clip, because you can
> navigate the Tracks, then the scenes, finally selecting a clip. BUT, if you are playing five clips all in five different
> scenes try going from one to another, to another, to another... with the option to autoselect the playing clip on the
> selected track all becomes a lot smoother.
Mixed opinions here on the way Bank/Select Buttons should work.
For some it's best the default behavior (just 'fly over' the scenes without selecting one...),
for others makes more sense to select scenes while going up and down ('a la stray411').
I guess it depends on the structure of your set.
I'm quite ok with the way the Bank/Select buttons already work now, even if it presents some issues.
The possibility of having the playing clip selected when selecting a track could be helpful.
There's a problem though, when you select a track that doesn't have playing clips you still need a way of selecting the scene containing the clip you want to check/tweak before it's launch...
I'd personally prefer have a pair of options/modes switchable 'on the fly'.
I guess that the easiest thing to do is to have a mode where clicking on a clip on the APC just selects it like when you just click on it (not on it's play button) on screen.
> Furthermore, I have still not found a way to EQ more than 1 track at a time without remapping Pan and Send controls,
> which is a total bummer. At this point I think I am just going to have to spring for a Behringer BCR2000 for these
> controls. Sucks because I kinda wanted to keep the rig as compact as possible, but I think this just might be the way it
> is. Anyone have any other ideas?
Someone here it's suggesting Macro Controls detached from a Rack/Chain but just as Group of Controls.
A Group of Controls that could be connected/related to parameters contained on more than one Track and/or Rack/Chain.
A Group of Controls that can then be used as a Device/Macro_Control_Bank in whatever track you through it in.
Some issues came up here and there, a smart public discussion of this should be more fruitful.
> I can surely do some of these things with MAX or Bome_MTPro,
> BUT
> I think that these and other softwares around should be used to do something more...
>not to give the controller/software couple some functions they're supposed to have
> IMHO
> out of the box
Huge debate here!
A couple of us here own Max and/or MTPro and/or others softwares and we are used to 'bend controllers to our will'
although there's a general agreement (especially from the less 'geeky' ones) on the fact that more could come 'out of the box' in terms of 'choices for the user' without having to become a pseudo-programmer
Let's hear from people at Ableton some comments!
Let's just hope they don't comment everything with the three letter acronym 'M4L'.
Fra
(Max, Paul, Dany and 'the unnameable')
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
Halley
"I'd personally prefer have a pair of options/modes switchable 'on the fly'.
I guess that the easiest thing to do is to have a mode where clicking on a clip on the APC just selects it like when you just click on it (not on it's play button) on screen".
That's absolutely f'ing brilliant!!!
Maybe a shift key then push any clip button to just select it, would be great for scene selection too!! And keep the scene launch button lit.
"I'd personally prefer have a pair of options/modes switchable 'on the fly'.
I guess that the easiest thing to do is to have a mode where clicking on a clip on the APC just selects it like when you just click on it (not on it's play button) on screen".
That's absolutely f'ing brilliant!!!
Maybe a shift key then push any clip button to just select it, would be great for scene selection too!! And keep the scene launch button lit.
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drewbixcube
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:37 am
Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
I have a question... Don't know if this has been asked, but why don't the endless encoders behave like endless encoders when automap is overridden?
For example, when in automap mode everything works as it should. I can bank through sends and the led rings reflect what is going on in the set, no pick up/value scaling needed. However, if I override the automap then adjust a mapped parameter with the mouse instead of the encoder, the led doesn't move and I have to use pick up/value scaling as if the encoder were a regular pan pot. With other endless encoders I've used, I've been able to adjust the parameter from the exact spot I left it with the mouse. Isn't this the point of using endless encoders? Is the encoder's functionality somehow tied in with the led ring? If so, shouldn't Live still be able to output the knob's position when automap is overridden, even when a mapped parameter is adjusted with a mouse?
Anyone have any ideas?
For example, when in automap mode everything works as it should. I can bank through sends and the led rings reflect what is going on in the set, no pick up/value scaling needed. However, if I override the automap then adjust a mapped parameter with the mouse instead of the encoder, the led doesn't move and I have to use pick up/value scaling as if the encoder were a regular pan pot. With other endless encoders I've used, I've been able to adjust the parameter from the exact spot I left it with the mouse. Isn't this the point of using endless encoders? Is the encoder's functionality somehow tied in with the led ring? If so, shouldn't Live still be able to output the knob's position when automap is overridden, even when a mapped parameter is adjusted with a mouse?
Anyone have any ideas?