I am so tired of Live Betas.....

[hurlingdervish]

but they are CHARGING for it.

its not like you had to sign up on an email list to get the beta sent to you.

dont defend a bad business model. videogame fans did this and now every game that comes out has 100 patches before it could ever be called finished

[ewistrand]

but they are CHARGING for it.

So is Apple for example. Or do you think that all the point upgrades to OSX should have been free? Or that they shouldn't have released OSX until now?

its not like you had to sign up on an email list to get the beta sent to you.

?

dont defend a bad business model. videogame fans did this and now every game that comes out has 100 patches before it could ever be called finished

If you can do it better, code your own.

ew

[hurlingdervish]

If you can do it better, code your own.

ew

and might as well go linux then and quadboot and take c++ just because a company that promises a product releases an unfinished one.

you don't do it better, you just don't buy into it.

i never said the update should be free. obviously it shouldn't be but if you are paying for it better be finished.
end of story.
consumers are consumers, not testers, not coders, not employees.

the worst part is people are using this in a live setting. what if a guitar amp stopped working and you had to restart it live? not a fair comparison you say? perfect comparison, because it NEEDS to be as reliable as any other piece of music gear.

[cotdagoo]

If you can do it better, code your own.

oh of course.. duh..

worst cop out of an answer ever

[Tone Deft]

this thread needs cheese.

[kb420]

Dear Ableton....

Why is it so damn difficult to release a working version of live 8? Why do i have to struggle with the same bugs everytime a new version of live is released? Had to wait for beta 5b2 before you guys did fix it! (hopefully). This time its a bug with lives rewiring that sucks! Wouldnt it be about time to get a better programmer? I mean take an example on Propellerheads and Reason, they do release a piece of stable software just like that!? I am working with Reason and the software just WORKS! but Live just have bugs bugs bugs! Would it be possible to learn from the last version so at least old bugs would be fixed even before the new version is released? Expand the beta testing time until Live is running stable! That is actually what people pay for! A working piece of software!

Kind Regards....

I feel your pain, but I think the fact that they are aggressively trying to fix the bugs is a good thing.

[ewistrand]

i never said the update should be free. obviously it shouldn't be but if you are paying for it better be finished.
end of story.

You're missing the point. There's endless variations in software/hardware configurations out there. There isn't any way you can test all the variables, and quite often fixing one thing will break something else with someone else's config.

I do a lot of testing for a lot of companies; I've yet to see a bug free release. And of initial releases, I've seen maybe two where serious bugs that slipped by the testers didn't pop up within a week or so.

the worst part is people are using this in a live setting. what if a guitar amp stopped working and you had to restart it live? not a fair comparison you say? perfect comparison, because it NEEDS to be as reliable as any other piece of music gear.

I've had amps blow up on stage. I've had keyboards lose their OS during the middle of a set (thank you, E-Mu). I've had almost every kind of hardware failure you can imagine on stage at one time or another. You do what you have to do; the audience understands.

worst cop out of an answer ever

How do you figure? You're the one who says it can be made bug free; i've yet to see anybody do so. Evidently you know something we don't...

ew

[D K]

i love a nice glass of whine now and then.
as soon as someone comes up with something better than live, i'm in.
as far as performance, i've used almost every version since 3 for gigs, with fewer problems than i've had with
bass amplification in the same amount of time.
kind of a useless comparison though, one being hardware and another software....
point is, nothing is perfect.
one nice thing has been having a few of the requests i've lobbied for implemented....
in the updates....
can't see pro tools doing anything like that...
in fact, i don't know of any other company that operates like that.

[cotdagoo]

How do you figure? You're the one who says it can be made bug free; i've yet to see anybody do so. Evidently you know something we don't...

ew

weird.. i don't ever recall being the one who says it can be made bug free.. i was the one suggesting beta periods should have been extended instead of putting a beta product in a box so it makes it to the shelves for a certain date though.

but yea.. telling someone if they don't like something to do it themselves/code it themselves is about as retarded as it gets in conversation. we're paying people money for this software so we don't have to write it ourselves. but according to you even that doesn't give someone the right to make a complaint or suggestion, etc.. unless they're up to the task of writing their own software..

i was merely just commenting on how stupid of an argument the whole 'code it yourself' motto is. think what you will..

[Pasha]

Whining is always easier than understanding.
Ableton business model is based on charging for new releases every year.
To charge for new software you have to insert new functionality otherwise
people won't be interested. Moreover you have to take care about the competition.
Hiring more people for beta testing is useless
because near real time software depends on hardware and OS configuration a lot
and you can't simply test all VST's-OS-Patch-Hardware combination (hardware includes controllers) out there
especially in the windows world. Sometimes is not even possible to maintain a
single code strain because of differences between OS. Take Mac OS X and Windows
for example, simply the different keys mapping, and you'll begin to understand.
Yes, this time Ableton, maybe under the pressure from Apple Logic Studio and others
on Windows had to inject so much things that they probably messed up the code stream.
Apple reduced the number of combination to test because they make their own hardware and OS.
As they bought Logic they cut Windows development immediately. They had enough of one OS to maintain.
..and Logic and Mac OS X are not perfect even they gain advantage from that.
Ableton can't survive without selling Live. Apple can survive without even selling Logic.
In the Music industry, NAMM is an appointment you can't miss. You have to show something.
This happens in all industry sectors. What revenue alternative could have Ableton?
Ableton could charge for support introducing an yearly fee or switch to a single platform
and in that case should be Apple (because of the reduced number of combination, not for other reasons).
It would be suicidal.
So current Ableton business model is the only sustainable way for them to go on I think.
I'm not excusing them but betas are the way software is tested by the masses of different combination
out there. I think they learned the lesson this time. Live had gone some massive change
to accept share and max4live later on and they are working very hard to be on top of that and I
appreciate it. When I upgraded from Leopard 10.5.4 to Leopard 10.5.6 via incremental updates
my machine was screwed. I had to come back to Leopard 10.5.4 which I'm still using.
When I upgraded Tiger 10.4.10 I had my Firewire Audio card rendered useless by a sudden and not announced
change in the firewire code. I had to wait until 10.4.11. Thanks Apple. That was official software,
not betas. It took them month to set a a new patch.
Ableton is not that kind of company. They work hard to comply with the fact that that they sold you a software
that could lead to some problems in some cases. Many whiners on this forum never filed a bug to support
or they file it and they expect it to be solved in minutes. We're running a complex piece of software.
Personally I am frankly satisfied with L8. I jumped on the bandwagon with 8.0.3 because I was
scared from the postings on this forum. Since then no crashes only minor glitches. I know
that they will eventually go away with next patches. I also know that I'm not the perfect tester
because probably my usage of Live is less complex compared to others and that's why I have less
or no problems at all but what I said about the business model and today's software complexity
remains.

- Best
- Pasha

[knotkranky]

If you can do it better, code your own.

ew

and might as well go linux then and quadboot and take c++ just because a company that promises a product releases an unfinished one.

you don't do it better, you just don't buy into it.

i never said the update should be free. obviously it shouldn't be but if you are paying for it better be finished.
end of story.
consumers are consumers, not testers, not coders, not employees.

the worst part is people are using this in a live setting. what if a guitar amp stopped working and you had to restart it live? not a fair comparison you say? perfect comparison, because it NEEDS to be as reliable as any other piece of music gear.

Hear hear, well said.

[33tetragammon]

this thread needs cheese.

and to top it all off,the totally-free-of-bugs-Live 8,Disneyland edition!

[Hermanus]

Well, I've just passed a hell of night

@#!*?h!t windows!!! and I declare ableton live 8 more stable than windows xp pro sp2

Now I'm gonna sleep U_U

[madlab]

you can defend ableton all you want, they are saving money by having the public do the testing for them...

its very obvious.

and bullshit.

if you cant hire enough people to test the product in time, then dont release it!

I guess microsoft has enough money to hire enough people to test their product... (an maybe other software editors like NI too...)

[paq]

you are all right. anyway i hope there will be more time for beta testing for live9.