I am so tired of Live Betas.....

[xzusa8ky]

+1 to cotdagoo

[sijarvis]

i hope there will be more time for beta testing for live9.

100% agree. I'm not updating my Live license for a while having read in these forums that it's not particularly good with Vista yet.

If Ableton do the same again with Live 9 then i'm out altogether. Brilliant as it is, there's just as good alternatives out there.

I would even think of going the Reason/Record route if the Props code some decent synths and samplers in the next incarnation of Reason. Of course, this would mean having to give up all my NI licenses too but it's worth it for stability's sake. I would miss Reaktor Spark though, one of the best synths ever to have graced my hard drive.

Ableton did themselves no favours at all when they released 8. Had they the balls to delay their marketing machine in order to carry on beta testing, they would have gained huge kudos and strengthened their users belief, they did the opposite. If they pull a stunt like that again, i'll not be the only person giving up my license.

Longer beta testing is the fastest way of stabilising their product. It would have been done a long time ago with all those extra people onboard the process.

The die-hards can do the post beta, beta testing and convince themselves that it's money well spent, whilst the defectors can get on with the fun bit of making music.

AS i've said before, they make great software (eventually) but i'm not their personal piggy bank.

Now I hope they're reading this. It's very important they understand the level of unhappiness Live 8 has achieved thus far.

[Willyum]

having read in these forums that it's not particularly good with Vista yet.

That's really independent of the users configuration. I have Live on a Vista machine and it's been working perfectly fine (up to 8.0.3, I didn't load 8.0.4 cause of the crashes I had on my XP sp3 machine)

You really gotta read between the lines on a forum. I posted earlier in this thread that 8.0.4 introduced a problem for me, But the other versions all ran perfectly on both my machines.

Most of the people on forums are either new and not very familiar with the product, or hardcore junkies looking to push things to the absolute max and always love have the newest of the new and then you have the the casual browsers who are just for social networking and fun. So if you looking at the forum in thirds, 2/3rds of the people here are destined to find trouble. The rest of the crowd is out making music, having fun and not thinking about this forum, so of course you will never hear their opinions.
Bottom line, the hundreds of thousands of people that Live is working perfectly fine for, are busy making music... not here.

And I forgot to mention the crowd that have under-performing machines to begin with, looking for tips and tricks to speed up their performance, so I guess that makes 3/4ths (of the regular forum visitors) are destined for trouble.

[paq]

having read in these forums that it's not particularly good with Vista yet.

...

ack. im running it on vista x64 here without any problems. the only bug i mentioned since 8.0.1 was the "crashing when dragging multiple clips from the live browser into a live set".

sijarvis: just check the demoversion (14-day-license) and see how its running on ur machine with ur sets.

[trilo]

So... don't use the betas!

Normally I'd be all for checking out and working out the updates before official release (and providing feedback, like any good tester), but for the last several months I've been involved in a couple other programs and I haven't wanted to complicate things further by using the Live betas. So I haven't touched them, and only grabbed the maintenance releases after they've gone official.

[sijarvis]

having read in these forums that it's not particularly good with Vista yet.

...

ack. im running it on vista x64 here without any problems. the only bug i mentioned since 8.0.1 was the "crashing when dragging multiple clips from the live browser into a live set".

sijarvis: just check the demoversion (14-day-license) and see how its running on ur machine with ur sets.

Yes, I know about the 14 day trial. I didn't think it was a demo though. My only reservation there is that if it's crashing my system or i'm unhappy with it due to poor performance, do I get another free 14 days on the next beta update? or am I to be left with a set I can't open in Live 7 until it's fixed?

I wonder if there's anyone bought into it yet who is still getting regular crashes when wanting to perform particular acts and functions.

I'm running Vista 32 bit home edition btw, just in case you're wondering. The only thing that's crashed it is the Jasuto plug-in and a small handful of freebies. I should upgrade my NI plugs to see if I can now name presets from within Live as this had been a known issue, however it was on the NI code, not Ableton's fault. It did crash on the last of the pre release Ableton betas, so I knew it wasn't ready though in fairness, it wasn't as often as i've seen reported by others.

I wonder if they could develop beta testing software that took the program through every single move, function and slice etc, collected all the information and highlighted each and every problem it encountered rewired itself to fix faults, then did it all again until it was ready. You just download the software onto your computer and it does the bug report for you.

Anyway, the real point to all this rant is that brilliant programmers are the key to your success. You can have as many new functions as you like but if it's not stable and your features can't be used, you're selling someone a load of headaches.

[sijarvis]

having read in these forums that it's not particularly good with Vista yet.

...

ack. im running it on vista x64 here without any problems. the only bug i mentioned since 8.0.1 was the "crashing when dragging multiple clips from the live browser into a live set".

sijarvis: just check the demoversion (14-day-license) and see how its running on ur machine with ur sets.

Yes, I know about the 14 day trial. I didn't think it was a demo though. My only reservation there is that if it's crashing my system or i'm unhappy with it due to poor performance, do I get another free 14 days on the next beta update? or am I to be left with a load of sets I can't open in Live 7 until it's fixed?

I wonder if there's anyone bought into it yet who is still getting regular crashes when wanting to perform particular acts and functions.

I'm running Vista 32 bit home edition btw, just in case you're wondering. The only thing that's crashed it is the Jasuto plug-in and a small handful of freebies. I should upgrade my NI plugs to see if I can now name presets from within Live as this had been a known issue, however it was on the NI code, not Ableton's fault. It did crash on the last of the pre release Ableton betas, so I knew it wasn't ready though in fairness, it wasn't as often as i've seen reported by others.

I wonder if they could develop beta testing software that took the program through every single move, function and slice etc, collected all the information and highlighted each and every problem it encountered rewired itself to fix faults, then did it all again until it was ready. You just download the software onto your computer and it does the bug report for you.

Anyway, the real point to all this rant is that brilliant programmers are the key to your success. You can have as many new functions as you like but if it's not stable and your features can't be used, you're selling someone a load of headaches.

[ewistrand]

[I should upgrade my NI plugs to see if I can now name presets from within Live as this had been a known issue, however it was on the NI code, not Ableton's fault.

Ah... no. That problem didn't happen until 6.0.10; NI's plugins are essentially the same as they were. If it were on NI, you'd see it in earlier versions of Live than 6.0.10.

ew

[sijarvis]

[I should upgrade my NI plugs to see if I can now name presets from within Live as this had been a known issue, however it was on the NI code, not Ableton's fault.

Ah... no. That problem didn't happen until 6.0.10; NI's plugins are essentially the same as they were. If it were on NI, you'd see it in earlier versions of Live than 6.0.10.

ew

Hey ew, thanks, I didn't actually know that. I always understood it was a problem with NI plug-ins when hosted inside Ableton. Whichever, it's not the end of the world but would be good to know I can name my presets properly. Names such as "Untitled one", "two", "three" etc gets kind of confusing.

[Pasha]

Bottom line, the hundreds of thousands of people that Live is working perfectly fine for, are busy making music... not here.

Very acute comment. People always write to whine, rarely write to say it's working... but... I'm writing here now so I'm not making music.. of course...
I'm @ work now... but I'd like to be in front of my 8.0.4....

[silveriofunk]

what makes it difficult is releasing their software on a certain date (specified a good year in advance). once that date rolls around and they don't have their software on the shelves they lose out on potential sales.

rather than pushing this date back to release a solid product it seems corners were cut and a 'beta' product was packaged and sent to retail shops.. i couldn't believe boxes were reported being on the shelves while 'beta' testing was still underway.

i tested this product before it was released.. and now i'm paying for apparently the same privilege (testing buggy software)

curious to see what kind of impact this stupidity has when they release v9 and no one buys it for a couple months after this crap

bugfixes from 8.0.1 - 8.0.4:

Prelistening of encoded audio files could lead to hard disk overloads.

Under certain conditions, replacing files via the File Manager would not work.[5142]

Repairing the Library would not update/repair meta data of Groove files.[5156]

On Mac OS X, having the Library on an external drive and attach/detaching it while Live is running would not work properly [4529]

Loading a third party plug-in which has fewer parameters than a previous version could crash Live.

Drag & drop of a preset within the Live's browser would not keep the destination folder open.[5140]

In a particular Live set, a certain audio clip would not play properly because of misaligned transients.[5284]

Some parameters for Faderfox controllers would not be correctly named.

Macro names would not always be automatically updated in nested Racks.[4149]

Saving a preset would fail if the corresponding preset folder does not exist.[5247]

The “Collect and Save” button of the file manager would not be named properly in some cases.[5290]

Under certain conditions, the file icon for an audio file would not be updated after an .asd file is created.[5299]

Under certain conditions, Arranger crossfades would produces clicks in the audio.

Looping an audio file in 'Tones' warp mode could have audio artifacts while fading.[5269]

Horizontal lines in pitch-like envelope editors would disappear with Zoom > 100%.[5315]

As soon as a progress bar for a Live pack installation was shown for the first time, there were no 'marching ants' anymore when loading a document, for the rest of the Live run.

Under certain conditions, the loop brace vertical lines in the Arranger would not cover the whole height of the Arranger.[5316]

If no Library is selected, the Repair button would be enabled and clicking it would crash Live.[5324]

The "Show Preferences" command would check if default packages need to be installed.[5308]

Copying, deleting and then pasting a file in the file browser would freeze Live.

Pasting files into Live's browser could make the mouse cursor jump.[4422]

Under certain conditions, clip fades and device automation would be visible at the same time.[5344]

In the Arpeggiator, receiving a note-off for the current step could skip a note.

Slicing presets would be shown even if they can't be used because the required additional products are not unlocked.

The 'Configure' mode would not work for certain VST plug-ins.

Copying an Instrument over an existing instrument from one track to another would not work.[5351]

The latency when playing instruments via external input might be too high in some cases.[5355]

Recording MIDI controller events into a MIDI clip could crash Live when the clip would be deleted during the recording.

On Windows and depending on the computer hardware setup, unlocking Live would not be persistent and had to be done on each new Live start.

Playing back certain REX loops would not work properly for each the second iteration.[5345]

Playing back a sample in 'Tones' warp mode would not work properly during the waveform analyzing.[5310]

Looper pedal would be macro mappable by mistake.[5371]

The overview for a group track would not be updated when undoing a recording.[5343]

In the clip detail view, changing clip loop start time via edit boxes would not work properly when loop start time is negative.[5326]

Under certain conditions, authorize Live on Mac OS X could freeze Live. [5372]

For particular parameters, the automation view would not properly updated. [5386]

Using any XY control would let the mouse pointer jump on mouse-up and could even crash Live.[5400]

On Mac OS X, the Configure mode for Audio Units would not work.

Adding the audio file of a frozen track into the arrangement would result in an extremely long clip.[5409]

Trigger any clip in Complex or Complex Pro warp mode via MIDI Key range mapping would not pitch the clip.[5395]

Under certain conditions, opening a set would not be possible as long as the file manger is open.[5379]

Under certain conditions, when loading a new Live set it would not be possible to delete the temp directory of the current project. For example after unfreezing a track.[5408]

MIDI Mapping a parameter with identical min and max value would crash Live.[5346]

Loading a particular Live set would fail with an "Invalid Product ID" message box.[5427]

Browsing within the Japanese help pages could freeze Live [5449]

On Mac OS X, "Move to trash" and "Show in finder" command would not work when particular toll are installed. (e.g. PathFinder)

The unfrozen-state of a track would not be saved properly within a Live set [4413]

Opening a particular set would crash as soon as the clip detail view of a particular clip would be opened [5454]

When committing grooves for audio clips, the created volume clip envelope could produce audio clicks [5266]

The "Auto" switch of racks would not always work properly [4568]

When moving the mouse over Macros, the the name of the corresponding macro would not always displayed in the status bar [5116]

In the Operator, the Notch filter display would not be displayed properly [5157]

MIDI note preview would not always play all notes when moving the insert marker with arrow left/right [5469]

Arranger recording of an unwarped clip could result in different playing offsets [5455]

In the file manager, the project and library link would not work [5467]

Installing a Live pack fails when one of the installed samples is already in use [3041]

MIDI step input would sometimes happen when it should not; for example when just playing a note while there's a time selection, or when pressing keys other than arrow left and arrow right. MIDI step input would also generate undo steps even if nothing happened [5486]

When scrubbing in the Arranger, sample pre-loading would not always work properly [4696]

Transport controls of certain controller surfaces would not work properly [5505]

Playing back a particular audio clip in Beats warp mode would lead to disk overloads on loop back jump [5501]

Under certain conditions, Collect and Save would copies no longer used audio files of frozen tracks [5114]

Slice to MIDI track on audio clip might crash Live [5390]

The voice stealing mechanism of the Impulse would not always work properly [573]

In the Vocoder, several parameter would appear with different names in the automation chooser compared to the names from the info text [5060]

In the Multiband Dynamics, several parameter would appear with different names in the automation chooser compared to the names from the info text [5060]

Creating a MIDI track via double click on an instrument preset in the Browser would not work when a Return or the master track is selected [3399]

The Session view scrolling with the APC40 would not always work properly

Third party plug-in offering more inputs that outputs could crash Live

Pasting a Live set from the browser into the current Live set would select and scroll to a slot in the last scene [5493]

Not quantized arranger scrubbing would not work properly [5491]

Slicing audio file using a slicing preset containing two levels of nested racks with cascading macro mappings would crash Live [5458]

Dragging a clip from a Live set in the browser to the empty arranger area would not work sometimes or even crash Live [5508]

Having an unwarped clip which spans more than the whole range of its next clip. Copying both of them are could crash Live.

In the browser, collapsing a folder while renaming contained file after exporting a clip or track into that folder could crash Live [5528]

Play through optimization would not work properly for audio monitoring and recording, resulting in high latencies [5529]

Unquantized scrubbing would not work properly in MIDI clips

On Mac OS X, the DUY Tape AU plug-in would crash on instantiation [5429]

When the Looper is set to a fixed length recording and the song is running, the recording length of the Looper might be miscalculated

Under certain conditions, moving a MIDI clip in arrangement could crash Live [5543]

Protocol recording of audio clips in ReWire slave mode would lead to silent arranger clips [5541]

Dragging a multi selection of audio files into Live would not work properly, when the multi selection would contain .asd files too [5485]

The 'Select All' context menu command would be available by accident for an entry in the device browser [5496]

On Windows, moving Library could transform .AbletonPresetInfo files into _AbletonPresetInfo files [5506]

Quantized scrubbing would not work properly in the Arranger [5490]

Setting a tempo via scene launch would not work properly if there's a loop in the Arranger [5535]

Exporting or consolidating audio would create a fade in in the resulting audio file [5540]

After Grouping, ungrouping or re-grouping of tracks, the APC40 would not work properly anymore

Doing undo via keyboard shortcut while a modal dialog is opened could crash Live [5561]

With the APC40, stopping clips via the clip-stop buttons would not work properly

Switching device banks would not work properly when using the 'microKontrol' as Control Surface [5568]

On Mac OS X, having a plug-in opening a modal dialog and switching then to another application would crash Live [5583]

MIDI loop recording in Arranger would not work properly after the first loop iteration [5203]

Using follow actions on clips in Legato mode could crash Live [5580]

On Windows, editing the info text for an arrangement locator would not work properly [5574]

On Mac OS X, slow mouse wheel changes would not work properly [5552]

On Mac OS X, drag'n drop operation with certain key modifiers could lead to an 'unstoppable' drag'n drop operation [5564]

Restoring from the undo history after a crash could lead to another crash

In several surface controller scripts, the arm buttons would not select tracks anymore [5594]

^- scary

ouch!


i really think they should take longer between versions and that way test the product better (even if we do it as alfa and beta version testers)

cause releasing sofware with so many bugs makes you feel a bit like they're taking the piss

no disrespect but come on!

also,

please bring the clip timeline back!!!!

what is the reasoning behind this?

[Tone Deft]

the reasoning is, it works fine for many of us, stop being so self absorbed and pay attention.

[Pasha]

the reasoning is, it works fine for many of us, stop being so self absorbed and pay attention.

TD, TD... Truth Delivered.

[whenchyiv]

If you can do it better, code your own.

ew

If I could code my own I wouldn't have spent all of this money on a piece of software that crashes several times a day on me, and that I don't trust to use in a performance situation.

[Pasha]

If you can do it better, code your own.

ew

If I could code my own I wouldn't have spent all of this money on a piece of software that crashes several times a day on me, and that I don't trust to use in a performance situation.

Have you asked a refund? You should try at least.