The Big Letdown

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:40 pm

am wrote:
secretagentgel wrote:can i download live 4.1 without operator? i have no intention of buying it and no desire to demo it atm. there's probably going to be no way to remove it from the "live instruments" folder either, is there.

corey
why? it just sits there in the program. No one is gonna force you to drag it into an empty midi channel.

Its un-necessary clutter. And since its not even a full version there is no desire to even have something like that in there.

D K · Post by **D K** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:02 am

i've been looking into some decent synth software and have been
waiting for this live release...at first run, it uses little cpu and reacts
smoothly with my midi keyboard. good. easy interface, simple design,
easy to use. bang on it for awhile...no glitches... open up the factory presets just to get a quick idea of what it can do. bad. i know these sounds are for example, but boy are they cheesy. kinda casio. after some play and tweaking of parameters, the bottom line seems to be having to add plug-ins to spice up the sound to a more interesting level.
so, at a glance, you get a solid plug-in synth with low cpu(compared to say, reaktor) that works well live with ableton live, useable but not over-the-top on the sound side.
the price is a little high. i'd fork over 100.00 in a heartbeat but i'll have to dip back in for a further look before the 150.00..... although the stability could be worth 50 bucks in the long run(if it proves to be).
i am glad ableton are pushing boundaries, well done on that end.
cheers
dk

rasputin · Post by **rasputin** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:35 pm

MarkH wrote:
Sales Dude McBoob wrote:Give Ableton a break...they've only had one product to sell (hooded sweatshirt and beach-ready tote bag aside).
I like my tote bag and my Ableton Mouse Pad! As long as they keep including stickers in the box I'm happy.

I just can't seem to win on the stickers. In the Live 3 box, the sticker sheet was torn and I couldn't use the nicest ones.

In the Live 4 box, the round stickers are designed such that 50% of the "L" in "live" is cut off so if you use them they look dumb. At least the logo is centered.

I know this is a really minor complaint, but I was sort of looking forward to the stickers, the ONLY sticker I permit on my car is
the ableton one!

And the printed manual is cool. At least they haven't completely given up on that.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:43 pm

You get stickers? Fuck me, that's a reason to get the boxed upgrade...

There were no stickers with v1.5!

-Paws

madlab · Post by **madlab** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:16 am

Some issues were clearly identified and confirmed by several users with different configs and should be adressed in priority. For example, the fact that Live doesn't seem to be able to play a file without glitches THE FIRST TIME YOU PLAY IT AFTER OPENING makes it unreliable for Live. On all the projects I use Live, I have to let one or two bars of silence at the beginning. I load the song, hit play then stop immediatly, then I can hit play again. If I don't do that, I get many glitches, even if the CPU doesn't go higher than 15-20 %. That's a workaround, not a normal behaviour for a piece of code called Live.
Tap Tempo also seems to be buggy for many people. To me, this is a crucial feature.

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:08 pm

dfusion wrote: Please don't let Ableton turn into another Native Instruments.

To late...even worse...they have turned into a kind of emagic by now

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:42 pm

Too expensive? Maybe, maybe not.

Long story short, I bought a collection of 5 virtual instruments for $99 from the people who invented VST. One would not install, first fatal blue screen I've ever seen from an install program. One hung Live, not sure why, seems like the .fxb files where fouled up-- first hard reboot I ever had to do in Live. So far, three instruments for $99, from the people who invented them-- a five day cool off period until I call their tech support.

At least I know Operator will WORK if I opt to buy it.

musick · Post by **musick** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:46 pm

mikemc wrote:Too expensive? Maybe, maybe not.

I agree. At first sight Operator is quite expensive but if you look at the perfect automation integration and creative possibilities you get with it. Most VSTi's deal with this very badly.

Operator sounds good, is easy to operate (:)) and has unique features, especially when used with clip automation.

Analytik J · Post by **Analytik J** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:26 pm

I just wanted to weigh in on this issue. I was completely shocked when I realized that the new ableton offering was a 150$ synth. I felt like I had been slapped in the face actually. For some one who extensivley uses Reaktor another synth is a mute point. Moreover, there were so many great upgrade ideas in the "wish list" thread. I was really excited about more piano roll functionality and some others. Then the big release and nothing! I would venture to guess that everyone using Live 4 already has an impressive synth set. I have to agree with the person who wrote that Ableton must have been working on this for a long time prior to the wish list thread. I love Ableton but I sincerely think they missed the boat on this release. I hope they take this feedback to heart and quickly come up with a free or inexpessive release with some of the items that customers actually wanted. On a positive note I agree that branching out is a good thing but they should branch out into areas that aren't super saturated.

Just my opinion,
Analytik J

Rx · Post by Rx » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:22 pm

i think we should all keep in mind all the cool stuff that has been implemented in the last 3 years, since Live has gone from being a loop-oriented performance tool to a fully-featured DAW. that's a huge change, and the last major update to 4.0 expanded Live's abilities significantly. with their track record, is their any doubt that they won't fix what needs fixing?

madlab · Post by **madlab** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:36 am

Rx wrote:i think we should all keep in mind all the cool stuff that has been implemented in the last 3 years, since Live has gone from being a loop-oriented performance tool to a fully-featured DAW. that's a huge change, and the last major update to 4.0 expanded Live's abilities significantly. with their track record, is their any doubt that they won't fix what needs fixing?

Sure. But some bugs, like the one I described in this thread, has been here since version 2 (glitches when playing a file the first time), I'm sure. I've been using stupid workarounds not to suffer from it, but for a software called Live, this is close to nonsense IMHO. Same for Tap Tempo. So, I hope these will be fixed in 4.11, but as the Abes are aware of the glitching problem and couldn't solve it in the past two years, I guess we'll have to do that 'play then stop then play' thing to get our songs to play Live without audio dropouts.

MotorMind · Post by **MotorMind** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:32 pm

Rx wrote:one thing to keep in mind is that they have always worked to improve Live. did anyone think from using Live 1 that it would grow into a fully-fledged yet stable DAW within 3 years

It's not a fully-fledged DAW. For one thing, it misses internal MIDI routing abilities. What's the deal with not being able to send MIDI straight to effects? The fact that you cannot assign envelopes to arbitrary MIDI CC numbers is also irritating. Audio-recording is adequate, but there are latency issues and no way of auto-compensating anything. And then there is the Big Bummer that assignments to MIDI notes and controls disable them for recording. Why don't they implement a global toggle for this?

As it stands now, Live is still primarily a loop-manipulation tool with some MIDI capabilities welded on. The steps necessary for turning it into a DAW are not *that* big though (see above). It is disappointing to see that Ableton prefers to devote energy to Yet-Another-Synth instead of listening to its customers, who *do* want a true DAW.

Rx · Post by Rx » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:36 pm

ok - it may not be totally fully-featureed, but it fills the needs of the average user quite well. (this average user used Cubase for 7 years until Live 4.) it would be cool if it could do a few more things, and i wouldn't be surprised if Live 5 incorporated a lot of the suggestions people want. i dunno much about programming, so if anyone can set me straight on this feel free, but i doubt they dropped all development on Live to work on Operator. from what i inferred at kvr, plugin development typically takes longer than 3-4 months. the 'One Truth' post about Operator was almost a year ago (can't check right now), which means that Operator was being developed at the same time they were working on VSTi & MIDI support. so, they were listening to user requests while working on something new.

another thing is to keep in mind the nature of tradeshows like NAMM. companies announce their new products. announcing bugfixes and slight improvements, though they be practical necessities, are met with yawns. i don't think it should be that way, but it is. a company will generally be ignored without it.

i'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, as there is, and i do agree that $149 is high for something that can be used in Live only. (even if it is the best laid-out and intuitive synth i've ever used and is $100 less than FM7 - unfortunately, i think an exclusive synth needs to priced like an add-on and not an individual product) i just think that the brouhaha over one product ignores what they've done in a reasonably short period of time. we wanted MIDI & vsti support and we got it, and i think that they will keep listening to us.

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:57 pm

Belive me this synth is amazing. Probably the most powerfull software synth on the market. I didnt realise how it worked to start with ? but than I realised holy shit you can control every parameter with envelopes....Its like Absynth but better. This thing rocks my ass!! add some delay and a bit o reverb and bobs your fanny you have the most amazing controlled sunth of all time. and i am not even a sycophant

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:18 pm

Emissary wrote:Belive me this synth is amazing. Probably the most powerfull software synth on the market. I didnt realise how it worked to start with ? but than I realised holy shit you can control every parameter with envelopes....Its like Absynth but better. This thing rocks my ass!! add some delay and a bit o reverb and bobs your fanny you have the most amazing controlled sunth of all time. and i am not even a sycophant

I believe you

heh. sycophant, thats a word you dont hear everyday

This is a track with 8 operators. Still a bit dull, but i love the sounds that come out of it.

Link to track

The Big Letdown

stickers gripe

Re: The Big Letdown

Operator seems ok, price is a little daunting

Re: Operator seems ok, price is a little daunting

Yes, the big let down