operator ? WTF!!!!!!!!

Zakari Luk · Post by **Zakari Luk** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:04 am

operator should be free. fuck it, live should be free, all software should b free. i payed for my fucking computer, im suppossed to pay for the programs to? wtf. i should have free high-speed-internet, i mean, after all, i paid for my fucking computer. those bastards at the electric company actually charge me for the electricity to run my computer, can you believe that shite? i paid for my fucking computer,now i got fucking people saying i got to pay them to use what i already fucking paid for. fucking bullshite. on top of that, i have to pay for gas to put in my car, that i fucking paid for. wtf?

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:50 am

braj wrote:
Amberience wrote:Operator is a seperate PRODUCT. Its not a part of Live 4.1.
That's not really true, it comes with Live, you can't get Live without it (yet anyway), and can't be used without Live. I don't see how it's 'separate'.

I understand your point, but think of it this way: if I buy a car that has a turbo installed, I paid for the company to manufacture the turbo, but then I can't use it unless I pay an extra fee, it seems a bit insulting. Software is different I know, but having the demo bundled makes you constantly reminded you don't have the complete package. And men don't like to be reminded they have a small package

If you were given a choice between the car without the turbo and a car with, the price for the one with the turbo would be higher than the one without.

Your analogy is flawed.

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:56 am

Hey Zakari,

I like your style. Can you come and negotiate on my behalf at my bank and with my credit card companies?

While your at it, maybe you can help me out with the tax man. I agree...it should all be fucking free!!

BTW: All these whiners about the price of Operator and/orLive.....blah blah blah, should stop charging for gigs, producing music, remixing, DJing, waiting tables, etc.

Or at least drop their prices by at least half!!!!

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:58 am

AdamJay wrote: IF it were FREE to REGISTERED users. Then that would mean non-registered users would have to pay right? Well how in the hell could a non-registered user USE A SYNTH to its full capacity if it requires a REGISTERED VERSION OF LIVE?

Exactly!!! Why is that so hard to understand?

tribalogical · Post by **tribalogical** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:40 am

braj wrote:
Amberience wrote:Operator is a seperate PRODUCT. Its not a part of Live 4.1.
That's not really true, it comes with Live, you can't get Live without it (yet anyway), and can't be used without Live. I don't see how it's 'separate'.

Until only recently, every copy of Logic had a horde of synths bundled with it that you could freely demo, but had to pay for to "unlock" permanently (because, they were considered 'separate products')...... There is no question, those additional synths were not considered part of the "DAW Product" package, just because they were bundled into the code. Also notable, those synths couldn't (and still can't) be used outside Logic....

The Ableton model is basically identical to that...

Eventually, after Apple bought eMagic, they decided to include those synths "free" as part of the package..... except, they boosted the price of the package by about $400 to compensate..... So, now you MUST buy the synths too, if you want Logic Pro. Either way, the user is PAYING EXTRA for those synths....

Now, which would you prefer? The OPTION to buy Operator, or to pay $150 more for Live, with Operator included "free"?

After the Abletons build a few more unlockable add-on goodies into Live, I imagine they might offer two packages. Live-only for the current price, and the "fully enabled Live Plus" with everything unlocked, for a higher (albeit discounted) price....

Unlike eMapple, who simply throws it all in, and charges the boot, the sink, and the baby's bathwater even if you just want to own Logic Pro sans synth plugins (although, most are so good, who wouldn't want them?).

I prefer having the option, personally.... and I can accept it as a legitimate business model for Live (bundling unlockable code into the software as "add-on product/functionality").

Because, leaving the add-ons locked doesn't reduce or hinder the functionality of Live in any way.... it isn't like some business models, which appear low-cost at the start, but then you MUST buy add-ons in order for it to function fully. Those models stink.

Ableton's model does not, IMO.... and by the way, Operator is a beauty. Worth (almost) every penny. So, whatever! Just do what works for you, and let the "issue" go away... cos it really isn't an issue at all......

Just my opinion....

peace,
tribalogical

genshi · Post by **genshi** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:25 am

bankz wrote:Hey ableton thanks for the new overpriced synth, It should be free for all REGISTERED users of ver 4.0 but then again it's typical!

Ableton your sleezy!

This complete f*cking idiot who posted this isn't really trying to make a point or even a valid statment, he is simply trying to stir up trouble like a schoolyard bully just to get his rocks off. We really should stop responding to this kind of drivel when we see it from now on as it is just wasting forum space. If it is constructive criticism, then fine, but this is just moranic bashing and we ALL need to start ignoring this kind of stuff (whether you support Operator or not.)

And incidentally, Adam Jay said it best with his Akai analogy... I wound up paying extra for the additional outputs, extra memory, etc. in my MPC2000 years ago; and Ableton never said this was an update with a new feature, they said they have an update with some fixes and a new optional product that can be intergrated into Live... and that's exactly what they delivered... and if you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT! Simple as that you selfish whining morons!

bankz · Post by **bankz** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:43 am

This complete f*cking idiot

Now who looks like the idiot... name calling? tisk tisk tisk

Anyway, I know things cost money, Why $149 bucks, why couldnt it be discounted to registered users? Cause they are selfish bastards! Operator is not seperate it came with the upgrade, It dont work in any other program like a VST, so ableton can kiss my ass with that bullshit.

GENSHI, god bless you and your family. I forgive you.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

BANKZ!!!

read my post... from earlier PLEASE.

you say "why can't it be discounted for registered users"

BECAUSE ONLY REGISTERED USERS CAN USE IT!
how on earth could someone with a non-registered version of Live use Operator? it requires a registered version of Live.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:15 am

bankz wrote:
This complete f*cking idiot

Now who looks like the idiot... name calling? tisk tisk tisk

Anyway, I know things cost money, Why $149 bucks, why couldnt it be discounted to registered users? Cause they are selfish bastards! Operator is not seperate it came with the upgrade, It dont work in any other program like a VST, so ableton can kiss my ass with that bullshit.

GENSHI, god bless you and your family. I forgive you.

You fucking moron. An Operator DEMO came with the upgrade, not the full version. You thick cunt, this has already been explained. I said I wasn't going to flame, but you clearly deserve it you stupid cocksucker.

imekon · Post by **imekon** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:40 am

bankz wrote:Hey ableton thanks for the new overpriced synth, It should be free for all REGISTERED users of ver 4.0 but then again it's typical!

Ableton your sleezy!

Why should it be free? I'd say it's overpriced, but then I'm not terribly interested in another synth - especially one I can only use in Live.

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:49 am

Incredible that this discussion is still going on ...
Maybe something to think about, even if you can't afford it (like I do for the moment), it's still very nice to be in there and with the combo of Simpler and Impulse , youu have a great way of still using it as ann excellent soundgenerator ...

rensonic · Post by **rensonic** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:01 am

AdamJay wrote:BECAUSE ONLY REGISTERED USERS CAN USE IT!
how on earth could someone with a non-registered version of Live use Operator? it requires a registered version of Live.

Priceless.

What bankz is saying is: "Operator should be free". On what basis? Hmm... aparently, NONE. Personally, right at this moment, I don't have $150 to spend right now in a new 'use-it-in-LIVE-only FM synth'. But I wish I did.

Either way, Ableton Rawks!

braj · Post by **braj** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:08 am

You know, if Operator only used 1% CPU instead of being about as hungry as they come, then I could deal with it being $150 and Live only. Then it would have really done a service to Live: making it more robust and efficient in regards to resource usage. That would have been truly valuable.

As it stands: to all you people who think it was better to get a new $150 Live-only plug-in at NAMM than to get code optimization or something like track freeze to make Live truly better for everyone (not just those wanting a $150 synth): you are on crack. You must be, it seems totally irrational to me. I'd hate to call anyone a fanboy, but it's bordering on that in these forums.

I hope what I perceive as being a bad buisiness decision and definitely a bad PR move doesn't end up hurting Ableton as a company. That would be a shame.

16 BIT · Post by **16 BIT** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:12 am

Same old antagonists.!

Vercengetorex · Post by **Vercengetorex** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:46 am

You guys do realize that only a handfull of the development staff @ Ableton headquarters were credited as being involved in Operator. I would imagine that as this neat new synth was being coded the remaing staff was working VERY hard (havent they always been?!) on the latest additions to Live. Did you perhaps notice the length of time between the realease of Live 3 and Live 4? Abletons development cycle is ages ahead of the Cubase/Logic/ProTools crowd, and they listen closely to the requests of thier user base. You remember when Live had no MIDI? AND the Abletons said they werent sure they would ever incorporate MIDI?! AND then they DID!?! OH MY GOD!

Ahem...

Anyway, just because YOUR feature requests are not integrated on a weekly basis, does not mean that the Abletons are too busy making synths you dont want, or that they are ignorant of those requests.
It simply means that they have a VERY long list of requests and they will get to you in turn.

So please stop bitching and wait your turn.

operator ? WTF!!!!!!!!

Credit Card and bank

Re: operator ? WTF!!!!!!!!

Re: operator ? WTF!!!!!!!!

Re: operator ? WTF!!!!!!!!