ot : RACISM...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jsg4z
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:16 am

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by jsg4z » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:00 am

LoopStationZebra wrote:Everytime I've been to the forum lately I mean to take a quick peak at what's new, what's hot, iPhone app developments, etc etc.

But here's this thread and it sucks me in everytime and I can't help reading it and before you know it I'm out of time and haven't discovered any new music/Ableton coolness.

Fuck!

:evil: :P

lmao, i just realized how little ive learned about ableton since this thread started. perhaps we are all just a little more retarded because of it

b0unc3
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by b0unc3 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:31 am

sublimelobc wrote:How can I keep biting my tongue on responding in this forum when there are posts with pictures dropping my jaw to the floor sabotaging my best efforts?

Who we are screams so loudly that people usually don't hear a word we have to say anyways.

However, respect must go out to those who speak up in defense of those unable to defend themselves. Those who think that the word "retard" is not offensive really should consider offering some time as a volunteer in one of the community programs that can be found in every town and city that advocate for the intellectually disabled.
-1

Oh puh-lease.

As i pointed out, Knotkranky was being a hypocrite. All he was doing was trying to gain leverage in his little spat with DrPuss by taking the moral high-ground. It was strained to say the least. He's seen and taken part in worse, and i'll bet you $10 he's enabled the people who've made those posts (the special-olympics pic, genuinely offensive) with positive re-enforcement. i.e general displays of mirth without challenging the disparaging nature of the humour. I doubt he'd even deny it. The pic DrPuss posted does not qualify as offensive simply because it contains the word retard.

Secondly, do you even know what the word Retard means ? You don't seem to. It's a noun & verb...that means slow and stupid, obtuse. It's accepted vernacular. It's offensiveness should be gauged in context - the word in & of itself isn't offensive. Calling someone a retard is no more heartless than calling someone stupid - unless of course you are referring to someone with serious mental issues. In which case retard/stupid are equally offensive words. If someone wants to start dis-respecting downs syndrome sufferers for shits & giggles - or refer to people as down syndrome - then sure, get your polka dotted panties in a twist, drop your jaw to the ground, and cry about it. I'll join you, but in a more manly way.

Thirdly, I've been a volunteer for the better half of a decade working with a broad spectrum of society's weakest, including illegal immigrants AND the severely handicapped.
Last edited by b0unc3 on Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

elxicano
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:57 am
Location: NYC

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by elxicano » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:36 am

stringtapper wrote: The point of that statement is directed exactly at the kind of sentiment you posed in your statement here:

"Yeah, I would be puzzled how a comment containing, "Violence will solve somebody's problems in the end... The cop right now has the weaponry needed to make some things I would like to do enforceably illegal." could be misconstrued???"

Simply put, it was misconstrued. Plus I actually had already explained what I meant in my answer to you here:

"I was merely pointing out that he who has the big guns is the one who makes the law. It was true for the European settlers, and it's still true for our government today."

This was in response to your facetious statement that "it wasn't illegal because the Europeans weren't here yet." I am saying that violence solved the colonists' "problem" of the natives. Certainly you concur, correct? I mean you believe that this land was taken from the natives by force? By violence? Right? All I was doing was stating that that violence worked and continues to work in the current laws and how they are enforced. I can't break laws I might like to without some kind of violence coming down on me (incarceration, perhaps death if I choose to fight back etc.).

So in admitting that you don't see how my comments could be misconstrued you are revealing a prejudice in some way. You were expecting that I meant something that I did not, and it guided your interpretation of what I said. Bear in mind that I'm using the term "prejudice" in its strictest definition. Some prejudices can be good in fact (e.g. don't jump over the tiger's fence at the zoo, because you've learned to prejudge tigers as being wild animals that will may kill you). And as I said prejudices often stem from reactionary tendencies, even the good ones (e.g. I put my hand on the stove and it was hot and I had a reaction [pain], so later I carry that reactionary response to not touch a stove, but that doesn't mean that every stove I encounter will be hot).

Summing up, I want to be able to break the law and have those who support illegal immigrants support me as well. You say "illegal" means nothing because in your mind the colonists taking the land from the natives was "illegal." I'm saying that in the real world and in how history actually plays out, that what is "illegal" is determined by the one who has the power. So the power that enabled the Europeans to determine that what they were doing was not illegal, is the same power that today let's "the man" determine what is illegal. So the overall point to that is to say that it's futile to discuss what should or should not be considered illegal because it will always be determined by the power factor.

All I'm saying about illegal immigration is that if it's going to be illegal then why the hell are we not going to enforce it, when I can break another law and it will get enforced? Enforce them all, or forget them all and let anything go; undocumented border crossing, theft, polygamy, cannibalism, whatever. Let it all be fair game.
You don't read well do you.

I will rephrase the former post for you.

Simply put, you could have said I misunderstood you, but yet you start with all this bullshit about my prejudices predetermining my interpretation.

No that is not correct. I misinterpreted your post based on what I read, nothing more.

You saying that was not correct would have been sufficient. Really, what is the rest of your ranting worth, when it was a simple misunderstanding.

What's worse is YOUR reactionary and accusatory post, while pointing out hypocritically an individual's tendency to jump to conclusions.

If I need to rephrase this yet another time, just let me know.

Android Bishop
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:03 am

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by Android Bishop » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:43 am

32 pages long

wow

elxicano
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:57 am
Location: NYC

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by elxicano » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:46 am

DrXparaMental wrote:
elxicano
Look friend, I know what you are attempting to do here. It's a game of trying to cover yourself. Context is not a floating constant whereby you can devise rules as you go. You must maintain context in order to discuss anything successfully. Otherwise nice little word salads like the one above don't mean much other than an eloquent verbal meal that should have cost half as much.

Lets back up shall we? How about you repeat the highly reactionary and completely unsubstantiated nonsense that you started with several posts back. You know the one. The one where you basically claimed that the United States was one was founded on the white man's raping and pillaging. The one where we are all either (a) descended from "illegal Immigrants" or are "illegal Immigrants"

I call bullshit, and for you, until you admit your flaws as such, there is NO escape.

Stringtapper merely attempted to elucidate the social mechanics of authoritative evil in a generous attempt to illuminate the falsehood of that which is responsible for your exceptionally sideways ill perspective concerning the origin of the USA.

Try and PLEASE keep your replies in a basic context. Conversations and intelligent debate don't exist compartmentalized in momentary fragments according to your choosing. They have an inception and everything from then until the present must be addressed with a comprehensive linear perspective.

Now, I'm going to see Judas Priest, Good Night.
The basic context of my conversation with you was summarized nicely when Bounc3 called you Dr. Pussy.

I am not running, diverting or covering, so fuck the escape bullshit.

To revisit the former... I'll say it again. Unless you're Native, then you have descended from immigrants or are an immigrant.

Rapes, killings and thieving are apart of the history Natives experienced in the formation what is now the known United States (coast to coast... remember, manifest destiny). They are still fighting for just compensation to this day for simply the promised lands taken away. So, no... not unsubstantiated, not bullshit and not just a footnote in history.

You can attempt to dictate conversation flow all you want and cry all you want about discussing in linear fashion. Dr. Pussy, this conversation is still relevant, coherent and on topic, so enjoy Judist Priest, but fuck you for believing I'd run from you or from a conversation.

scott nathaniel
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by scott nathaniel » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:51 am

Come on guys. Let's get to the moral of this thread, and that is this: Midgets shouldn't be used as bowling balls.

Image

stringtapper
Posts: 6280
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by stringtapper » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:52 am

elxicano wrote:
stringtapper wrote: The point of that statement is directed exactly at the kind of sentiment you posed in your statement here:

"Yeah, I would be puzzled how a comment containing, "Violence will solve somebody's problems in the end... The cop right now has the weaponry needed to make some things I would like to do enforceably illegal." could be misconstrued???"

Simply put, it was misconstrued. Plus I actually had already explained what I meant in my answer to you here:

"I was merely pointing out that he who has the big guns is the one who makes the law. It was true for the European settlers, and it's still true for our government today."

This was in response to your facetious statement that "it wasn't illegal because the Europeans weren't here yet." I am saying that violence solved the colonists' "problem" of the natives. Certainly you concur, correct? I mean you believe that this land was taken from the natives by force? By violence? Right? All I was doing was stating that that violence worked and continues to work in the current laws and how they are enforced. I can't break laws I might like to without some kind of violence coming down on me (incarceration, perhaps death if I choose to fight back etc.).

So in admitting that you don't see how my comments could be misconstrued you are revealing a prejudice in some way. You were expecting that I meant something that I did not, and it guided your interpretation of what I said. Bear in mind that I'm using the term "prejudice" in its strictest definition. Some prejudices can be good in fact (e.g. don't jump over the tiger's fence at the zoo, because you've learned to prejudge tigers as being wild animals that will may kill you). And as I said prejudices often stem from reactionary tendencies, even the good ones (e.g. I put my hand on the stove and it was hot and I had a reaction [pain], so later I carry that reactionary response to not touch a stove, but that doesn't mean that every stove I encounter will be hot).

Summing up, I want to be able to break the law and have those who support illegal immigrants support me as well. You say "illegal" means nothing because in your mind the colonists taking the land from the natives was "illegal." I'm saying that in the real world and in how history actually plays out, that what is "illegal" is determined by the one who has the power. So the power that enabled the Europeans to determine that what they were doing was not illegal, is the same power that today let's "the man" determine what is illegal. So the overall point to that is to say that it's futile to discuss what should or should not be considered illegal because it will always be determined by the power factor.

All I'm saying about illegal immigration is that if it's going to be illegal then why the hell are we not going to enforce it, when I can break another law and it will get enforced? Enforce them all, or forget them all and let anything go; undocumented border crossing, theft, polygamy, cannibalism, whatever. Let it all be fair game.
You don't read well do you.

I will rephrase the former post for you.

Simply put, you could have said I misunderstood you, but yet you start with all this bullshit about my prejudices predetermining my interpretation.

No that is not correct. I misinterpreted your post based on what I read, nothing more.

You saying that was not correct would have been sufficient. Really, what is the rest of your ranting worth, when it was a simple misunderstanding.

What's worse is YOUR reactionary and accusatory post, while pointing out hypocritically an individual's tendency to jump to conclusions.

If I need to rephrase this yet another time, just let me know.
Ok you're obviously taking this personally and hurling insults now so I'm bowing out of this. I refuse to engage in ad hominem and debate based on emotion. Peace.
Unsound Designer

gaijin1717
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Oakland

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by gaijin1717 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:54 am

What can I even say!?!?! I've been avoiding this thread like the plague from the onset, but damn thing doesn't go away...

There are some special folks on this here forum.

Only one way to settle this: tracks or stfu. Followed by a poll to see who wins. Of course, only those who are registered Ableton users, residents of this forum, are allowed to vote. You don't want the aliens to fuck up the numbers now, do you? Democracy is at stake here people!!!

Now, by all means, please ad hominem away.

jsg4z
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:16 am

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by jsg4z » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:04 am

gaijin1717 wrote:What can I even say!?!?! I've been avoiding this thread like the plague from the onset, but damn thing doesn't go away...

There are some special folks on this here forum.

Only one way to settle this: tracks or stfu. Followed by a poll to see who wins. Of course, only those who are registered Ableton users, residents of this forum, are allowed to vote. You don't want the aliens to fuck up the numbers now, do you? Democracy is at stake here people!!!

Now, by all means, please ad hominem away.
i dont think they like to be called 'special folks', maybe handicapable?

Tone Deft
Posts: 24154
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:28 am

because I use the term 'retarded' often, let me clarify...

honestly, when I use the term retarded I mean it as in a post that's held back in progress, growth, development etc. a retarded idea, a retarded post, a retarded notion, a post that's not well thought out or lacks cohesion or common sense.

the word retarded is not limited to mental capacity. someone can be socially retarded, fabrics can be flame retardant, a retarder on a vehicle is a type of brake.

someone mentioned earlier that it's offensive because the mentally retarded can't defend themselves, I hope a mentally retarded person would kick his ass for posting that. it was in good spirit but categorically saying a segment of society can't defend themselves because they're not smart is retarded. IMO.

that 'classic' picture is offensive because it says that the mentally handicapped lose.



really, it's all about flaming the f-ck out of 3dot for starting these threads. he just likes to see people fight, that or he's just really f-ing stupid thinking that this wouldn't happen. what kind of jagoff starts a thread on racism on the Ableton forum?
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

STRATEGY_510
Posts: 825
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Oakland, Killafoolya

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by STRATEGY_510 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:50 am

john gordon wrote:ahhhh michigan.....this explains everything,you're excused.
On that note, Chicago is the most racially polarized place I have ever been.

STRATEGY

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by knotkranky » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:05 am

[quote="b0unc3"
-1

Oh puh-lease.

As i pointed out, Knotkranky was being a hypocrite. All he was doing was trying to gain leverage in his little spat with DrPuss by taking the moral high-ground. It was strained to say the least. He's seen and taken part in worse, and i'll bet you $10 he's enabled the people who've made those posts (the special-olympics pic, genuinely offensive) with positive re-enforcement. i.e general displays of mirth without challenging the disparaging nature of the humour. I doubt he'd even deny it. The pic DrPuss posted does not qualify as offensive simply because it contains the word retard.

Secondly, do you even know what the word Retard means ? You don't seem to. It's a noun & verb...that means slow and stupid, obtuse. It's accepted vernacular. It's offensiveness should be gauged in context - the word in & of itself isn't offensive. Calling someone a retard is no more heartless than calling someone stupid - unless of course you are referring to someone with serious mental issues. In which case retard/stupid are equally offensive words. If someone wants to start dis-respecting downs syndrome sufferers for shits & giggles - or refer to people as down syndrome - then sure, get your polka dotted panties in a twist, drop your jaw to the ground, and cry about it. I'll join you, but in a more manly way.

Thirdly, I've been a volunteer for the better half of a decade working with a broad spectrum of society's weakest, including illegal immigrants AND the severely handicapped.
whatever b, Like, no shit to most of that. Right, those picture don't mean fuck, but the dude was being a douche. Please man, listen to what you're saying, lol. Regardless, not too many pics and jokes, right? Christ, have fun already dudes, everybody has a right to be a dick. sheesh


And anyone who doesn't go with this can put it in their butt. The rest is a waste of thread space.
Why is it that during times of economic crisis, the most vulnerable are blamed?

What about those of the legal population committing welfare fraud, Medicare fraud and Social Security fraud?

These vulnerable workers do pay taxes. When they purchase items, they are paying sales tax.

We cannot underestimate the significance of contributions these illegal immigrants make to the farming/agricultural/food processing/packaging business. Who else is going to stand slumped over, for hours a day, picking fruit and vegetables or packaging cartons of food items while earning peanuts?

b0unc3
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by b0unc3 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:17 am

eat shit KK!

I'm not gonna let the word 'retard' be morally tarred just cos you want to duke it out with some ponced up try-hard.


Anyways, you served Quincy Jones a glass of water...and well, I can't help but not-hate you because of that.

knotkranky
Posts: 4336
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: la

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by knotkranky » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:26 am

b0unc3 wrote:eat shit KK!

I'm not gonna let the word 'retard' be morally tarred just cos you want to duke it out with some ponced up try-hard.
i'm for anything that makes you strong bro, lol. But yeah, you ain't wrong either.

DrXparaMental
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Re: ot : RACISM...

Post by DrXparaMental » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:11 pm

elxicano wrote:
DrXparaMental wrote:
elxicano
Look friend, I know what you are attempting to do here. It's a game of trying to cover yourself. Context is not a floating constant whereby you can devise rules as you go. You must maintain context in order to discuss anything successfully. Otherwise nice little word salads like the one above don't mean much other than an eloquent verbal meal that should have cost half as much.

Lets back up shall we? How about you repeat the highly reactionary and completely unsubstantiated nonsense that you started with several posts back. You know the one. The one where you basically claimed that the United States was one was founded on the white man's raping and pillaging. The one where we are all either (a) descended from "illegal Immigrants" or are "illegal Immigrants"

I call bullshit, and for you, until you admit your flaws as such, there is NO escape.

Stringtapper merely attempted to elucidate the social mechanics of authoritative evil in a generous attempt to illuminate the falsehood of that which is responsible for your exceptionally sideways ill perspective concerning the origin of the USA.

Try and PLEASE keep your replies in a basic context. Conversations and intelligent debate don't exist compartmentalized in momentary fragments according to your choosing. They have an inception and everything from then until the present must be addressed with a comprehensive linear perspective.

Now, I'm going to see Judas Priest, Good Night.
The basic context of my conversation with you was summarized nicely when Bounc3 called you Dr. Pussy.

I am not running, diverting or covering, so fuck the escape bullshit.

To revisit the former... I'll say it again. Unless you're Native, then you have descended from immigrants or are an immigrant.

Rapes, killings and thieving are apart of the history Natives experienced in the formation what is now the known United States (coast to coast... remember, manifest destiny). They are still fighting for just compensation to this day for simply the promised lands taken away. So, no... not unsubstantiated, not bullshit and not just a footnote in history.

You can attempt to dictate conversation flow all you want and cry all you want about discussing in linear fashion. Dr. Pussy, this conversation is still relevant, coherent and on topic, so enjoy Judist Priest, but fuck you for believing I'd run from you or from a conversation.
ROTFLMAO!!!! What a weak kneed and a thin skinned puss you are. I really didn't anticipate much more than what you have offered in response here, but thanks for the laugh anyhow.

If you can't win an INTELLIGENT debate, resort to being as childishly insulting as possible and become the next "I wanna get bitch slapped" poster child. :lol:

You're brain tank is on empty.

From what I have heard of your mad skillz via soundcloud eldorko, your talent bank is in broke piggy bank mode as well.

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