performing live was a disaster, level and audio problems

[knotkranky]

If the mixer was full-out and distorting before it hits the system, no limiting or compression will help. At least not enough to make up a huge amount of db. Nope.

Sure, but why was the mixer distorting? It couldn't have been with the DJ's stuff if that sounded fine. Reason? Limiting, compressing, 'maximizing'.

I dunno about the dif at sound-check. The dude before was fine, you were not just after. Really, there's not that much difference between DJ sets to make that huge a diff.

Oh yes, there is! Ever looked at the waveform of a commercial record (especially in club music) from the last few years??? It's ridiculous really, the way people push loudness these days. I'm not saying it's a good thing, not at all. But it's a fact and it sure makes a huge difference to perceived loudness. Huge.

You wouldn't notice it that much during sound-check, they rarely max out the volume then, and there's no audience masking the low level sounds or changing the acoustics of the room.

Something went ragga. A missed gain stage or a messed-with gain stage post mixer. Cross-overs, amps, pads. I bet It was post interface though.

The only other possible problem was that a resistance load was introduced by some impedance mismatch. Something not there at sound-check but patched between sets.

Possible, anything's possible.

But the phenomena's I described definitely is part of just about any professionally mastered club record the last ten years or so. What you suggest can happen, if you're really unlucky. (The impedance of the gear changed after sound-check??? Wow!) Place your bets, gentlemen...

EDIT:
If your music's not very dynamic, 'maximising' will still make a difference, but not all that much. But the OP suggested their music was in fact pretty dynamic and then it will. And I'm not only speaking from a theoretical standpoint, I've both mixed and played live music with so much dynamics that it posed a problem.

EDIT AGAIN:
No need to argue really. Just export a couple of your tracks as they were at the gig and make them available online. Then we can all compare them to a couple of commercially mastered tracks and see if there's any significant difference in perceived level. I can host them for you if you like, just send me a private message.

why was mixer distorting? - either too much input level or too much output level. And the dude said he wasn't using limiting/maximizing so......

A huge dif is relative my friend. So no, it's not that much and easily delt with within a few db. Comparable DJ sets with and without limiters handle thier levels just fine between them and both can rock the hizzy. The idea is that the OP can eliminate them as the issue of weak PA system experience.

Even if we're talking a 10db dif, it's not enough to cause the problem. He wasn't using limiting.

Look elsewhere.

[slirak]

why was mixer distorting? - either too much input level or too much output level. And the dude said he wasn't using limiting/maximizing so......

Well, that was my point. Without limiting, you can easily get distortion without getting much of a perceived boost of loudness.

A huge dif is relative my friend. So no, it's not that much and easily delt with within a few db. Comparable DJ sets with and without limiters handle thier levels just fine between them and both can rock the hizzy..

Yeah, and? The DJs will most likely be playing records, right? They've been mastered and will be loud.

Even if we're talking a 10db dif, it's not enough to cause the problem.

6 dB equals a perceived doubling of sound pressure. A doubling.

He wasn't using limiting.

Who wasn't? I'm not saying the DJs put a limiter in their sound chain, not at all. But the records they played most certainly was limited and not a little. You surely can't argue that? Again, have you ever looked at the waveform of a commercially released modern record?

EDIT:
Again, if the OP would upload a track, you and me wouldn't have to have a hypothetical argument. Which is kinda fun but pretty pointless, at least from the poor OP's point of view...

[knotkranky]

I guess i'm not making myself clear. The problem with the OP's levels was not about having or not having limiters or the other DJ having or not having limiters either.

Point being; trying to figure out what his problem was. It was not for the lack of using a limiter.

If krachtwerk uploaded his track for us and it was low, it wouldn't matter. It's a matter of what was done to his signal post interface. He simply needs to turn up his input gain on the mixer. There are lots of ways of getting a hot signal in a PA that "had" good headroom as shown in the first set. If crap was coming out of his program, a limiter would simply just make it louder crap, so not helpful either.

Going with the OP's track being mixed better than so so, the "mixer's" input gain amp and forward is all ya need. Gimme a mixer and a track that's -12db under any hot record and i'll match levels just fine.

[krachtwerk]

hey guys,
i don't have time to put up the mixes now.. i worked all day, and tomorrow again.. but will do it as soon as i have spare time..
thanks for your reply's

[krachtwerk]

or, i can give you the link to our myspace.. i think the levels are the same in the finished tracks.
not mastered tough..

[silveriofunk]

ableton volume is way too low... when you have to dj next to people that have been djing with tracktor of with vynil or cd you can tell the difference... annoying