Windows 7 Optimization For Audio

[Casual Beats]

Running windows 7 RC with an Echo Layla 24. I never usually touch an OS for production work until the first service pack is released but my computer got fried by lightning two weeks ago, so when I was rebuilding I figured what the hell I'll try 7 RC. Not bad so far, though my latency is higher than XP - around 15ms using 8.0.4 (haven't tried any of the newest betas yet) Running 4 UADs with no spikes yet, but haven't push the cards too hard since the new build.

Come to think of it, I think Windows 7 RTM'd today, so it should be on technet next week.

[outsidesys]

Pulled from this Blog: http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs ... heads.aspx

TechNet and MSDN subscribers will be able to download Windows 7 RTM in English on August 6th and remaining languages by October 1st.

Volume License (VL) customers with an existing Software Assurance (SA) license will be able to download Windows 7 RTM in English starting August 7th via the Volume License Service Center (VLSC).

Volume License customers without a SA license will be able to purchase Windows 7 through Volume Licensing on September 1.

[disco judas]

You'd be surprised how much more important it is to have well-written drivers than it is to have powerful computers...of course, the more power the better...but to achieve those latency numbers, you need kick ass drivers, and I don't think you can do it with USB2 or Firewire. PCI or PCIe at minimum.

Ok,

But is there much to gain from swithing from USB2 (Edirol UA-25) to Firewire (RME fireface 400)?


If so,Im only switching because of speed and performance, as I have other preamps and converters

[nebulae]

^If I was on PC, I'd stick with USB2. It just works. Firewire on PC has always been fickle.

[funky shit]

^If I was on PC, I'd stick with USB2. It just works. Firewire on PC has always been fickle.

Never had any trouble at all with firewire. only with usb.

get a mac

yeah but that would be the pussys way out

[alex.the.forge]

yeah but that would be the pussys way out

funny enough I clicked on this out of habit as well as curiosity because I was on windows for so long, and I was always very cynical about the 'cult of mac' but now I made the switch the thought of going back to windows makes me feel kind of unclean.

[funky shit]

unclean

really though im not a fanboy.. i used a lot of different macs in the past two years, g4's imacs, new imacs, g5s, mac pro, final cut HD etc.. and when i start college again in september ill be using macs.

So they arnt new or strange to me, PCs are just more personal.. sort of.

[funky shit]

also @ Neb...

what rme interface are you using? im was going to go for an ultralite but maby you could point me towards something better?

[disco judas]

^If I was on PC, I'd stick with USB2. It just works. Firewire on PC has always been fickle.

Ok, good to know!


So, on PC, usb is being used for professional studio work?
On gearslutz.com usb seems to be a no-no.
They say its only for your mouse and printer etc because it sends data in "chunks" and not continuosly like firewire, which is designed from ground up to work wirh audio and images.


Im still not sure wheteher I should ditch out the money for a RME firefce 400, or just use usb - for connecting my laptop to a pro studio with highend outboard equipment


im using XP

[funky shit]

go with firewire.

[musicmachine]

get a PC

get a mac

So get an intel mac?

[funky shit]

buyin a mac these days would be either for style/operating system.

[leedsquietman]

AFAIK - Windows 7 pretty much uses the same drivers as Vista. So the performance is really going to be down to the driver performance as much as anything - Neb is right - I could use latencies of 6ms on my Echo Indigo IO pcmcia (3ms in and out) on win XP and 13ms on my Alesis IO14 FW (6ms in and out)on win XP on a Pentium 4 laptop w/ 2 GB ram.

On a Core2Duo laptop with a faster HDD and 4GB ram running Vista 32 Ultimate, I can only get latencies of 11ms on the Echo Indigo and although I can get 13ms on the Alesis, I can only do this for a few audio tracks before it hasw to be stepped up to 24ms.

Vista has a higher inherent system latency than win XP. download the DPC latency checker and on my clunking old XP laptop, it runs around 175 average with peaks no more than 400. On Vista, the average is about 650, with peaks up to 1600. Certainly in Vista, disabling wifi helps a bit as does disabling the DVD writer driver.

Windows 7 and Vista have better memory management, and once I have finished tracking my Core2Duo laptop with Vista and 4GB ram allows me to run many more tracks and plugins than my creaking old P4 laptop when I step up latency to 512 samples (23-24ms), but I can't do ultra low latency tracking through the computer with it - I have to use direct monitoring on the Alesis (so everything is always dry - no monitoring with reverb on tracking vocals etc).

As for Firewire - This is more problematic on a PC because of the various chipsets and drivers. If you fall upon a good combination of chipset and driver then firewire can rule (i.e. TI chipset, FF400/800 or Multiface, you are talking 3ms latency or less is useable). Many USB interfaces until recently only ran usb 1.1, which is much poorer performance wise, more recently, USB2 has become standard, which is why devices such as the upcoming RME Fireface UC (a USB2 interface with similar specs to the FF400) can run at 32 samples on win xp (48 on vista and an amazingly low 14 samples on Mac OSX CoreAudio). Latencies like this are almost equivalent to a Protools HD system. But even lower priced stuff like the Audio Kontrol 1 can run comfortably at low latencies. USB2 IS the new Firewire. Apple dropped FW on the basic Macbook and now Apogee, Apple's long time interfacce partner just made it's first ever USB2 interface, RME just made it's first ever USB2 interface - within a couple of years, no-one will be making firewire devices.

Last point - even though I use PC and it can achieve great results, as an audio protocol, Mac OSX CoreAudio is better supported than the low latency offerings such as WaveRT (which can get really low latencies, but no-one is bothered to support it, they stick with ASIO), and as demonstrated by the RME Fireface UC, 14 samples - about half a millisecond latency - WOW. CoreMIDI has always been a better protocol than either windows MME or Direct Music with less jitter and timing errors. That's not to say that you can't get usable results in windows if someone writes a good driver, but it's less certain than on a Mac that this will happen. Windows 7 like VIsta and XP, doesn't bring much to the table specifically for audio. It's relying on 3rd party developers to bring their own protocols and drivers. It should be noted that RME, as for their firewire interfaces, have their own PROPRIETARY system which is not USB or FW, it just uses those ports for communication, which is why their performance is so high.

[disco judas]

Great, thanks!


What is the best USB drivers for Windows XP? Edirol UA-25?

[leedsquietman]

RME Fireface UC
http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--RME--US ... Interfaces

Edirol have a newer version of the UA-25 which runs at USB2 and has improved specs the UA-25 EX
http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... rentId=114

It has good reviews - I have personally never used it. 96 Khz doesnt have full duplex though, not a problem if you use 48 Khz or less typically but could be an issue if you use 96 Khz recordings.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UA25/reviews/

The Edirol UA101 is an older USB 2.0 interface but still well considered and specced
The Native INstruments Audio Kontrol is good if you only need a couple of ins and outs.
Some people like the M-Audio Fast Track ULTRA (The Fast Track Pro is more of a mixed bag) - I personally am not a big fan of M-Audio interfaces though.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may08/a ... kultra.htm