HELP: How to make quad channel out pan between one and other

[Nightrider]

OK - so I have a quadraphonic sound system and I'm only using Live that send 4 separate channels to each of the 4 monitors.

Is there a way to use panning and sends to make the audio (stereo tracks) appear to be panning around the 4 speakers?

Can I randomize this so its not panning the same way all of the time?

Or have I just gone crazy thinking I can do this with Live?!

I have a feeling I'm seen Monolake do this somewhere but a search brings up lots of people saying they want 5.1/Quad sound etc.

Thanks in advance

[ubermnd]

if your controller has an xy pad or joystick it can be done.

make 4 send tracks with their outputs set to each seperate channel.

set the x control to turn up send 1 and 3 but reverse the value for 3 so that you are turning up send 1 and turning down send 3 simultaneously.

repeat this process with sends 2 and 4 on the y control and hey presto, a slightly clunky but perfectly functioning quad panner.

[bosonHavoc]

i bet you could set up an effects rack with external audio effect on separate chains.
then set up your zones for each chains so that they over lap with fads going from one speaker to the next. then you could do a quadraphonic pan with 1 fader or knob.
plus you could build some crazy effects racks that you can save and apply to anything.
quadraphonic sound would be soooo much fun.. i wants!!

play arround with zones too because i bet you could create pans that start in all 4 then fade to 1 zip around the room and fade back to all.

joystick make me happy

[oblique strategies]

i bet you could set up an effects rack with external audio effect on separate chains.
then set up your zones for each chains so that they over lap with fads going from one speaker to the next. then you could do a quadraphonic pan with 1 fader or knob.
plus you could build some crazy effects racks that you can save and apply to anything.
quadraphonic sound would be soooo much fun.. i wants!!

play arround with zones too because i bet you could create pans that start in all 4 then fade to 1 zip around the room and fade back to all.

joystick make me happy

I have done this. There are issues with this method due to the limitations of racks & chains:

1. You cannot fade between speakers, but only abruptly cut when using the External Audio Effect devices because the fade ranges in the chains/in the racks do not work with the External Audio Effect (why Ableton?).

2. Racks don't support multiple chain select zones in the same chain (this is hard to explain, so bear with me!). In other words, if you have four chains each feeding an External Audio Effect device to a separate speaker you can pan from the first chain through the forth chain in a linear manner using the zone selector.

But if you then want the signal to pan back to the first speaker to complete the circle you either have to move the zone selector back to the first chain (which means you will hear this reverse panning or you have to mute the signal: both defeat the concept), or you have to add another External Audio Effect device that is routed to the first speaker. So now you have five External Audio Effect devices to allow panning in a circle (cutting actually since there is no fading involved due to problem #1.) The more times you want to move the sound around the speakers the more External Audio Effect devices you have to add. This is hardly practical & takes up CPU. The more channels you add to your session, each with with these panning racks filled with multiple External Audio Effect devices the less CPU you have.

If you want to pan in random, non-circular manner you then have to adjust the zones within the chains -again highly labour intensive & inelegant. Hardly what any of us have in mind when we think about mixing in Quad.

A better approach is to use dummy clips, follow actions, & clip envelopes. But this is also an inelegant work around. Rather than explain how to do this, I can send you a session that has everything set up which will get you started. Let me know if you're interested.

There are other tricks when trying to mix in quad in Live, particularly how routing & effects send/returns work with stereo & mono signals, & mono & stereo I/O routing.

I've been mixing in Quad (or more speakers) for some time now, both with Live & hardware, & am happy to help where I can.

OK - so I have a quadraphonic sound system and I'm only using Live that send 4 separate channels to each of the 4 monitors.

Is there a way to use panning and sends to make the audio (stereo tracks) appear to be panning around the 4 speakers?

Can I randomize this so its not panning the same way all of the time?

Or have I just gone crazy thinking I can do this with Live?!

I have a feeling I'm seen Monolake do this somewhere but a search brings up lots of people saying they want 5.1/Quad sound etc.

Thanks in advance

This is cool & good for a basic quad panner, but you can't pan one sound source to two discreet but opposite speakers with it, you always get a mixture of the speakers relative to the joystick. I prefer four controls: one for each speaker. This way I can pan a sound to my four speakers in any possible manner. It is less about "moving sounds around" than placing sounds within a quad speaker array & having control over each speaker.

[jyrgen]

A better approach is to use dummy clips, follow actions, & clip envelopes. But this is also an inelegant work around. Rather than explain how to do this, I can send you a session that has everything set up which will get you started. Let me know if you're interested.

There are other tricks when trying to mix in quad in Live, particularly how routing & effects send/returns work with stereo & mono signals, & mono & stereo I/O routing.

I've been mixing in Quad (or more speakers) for some time now, both with Live & hardware, & am happy to help where I can.

hi there,
may i ask for you for sending over an example setup ?
thanks a ton !
regards, jyrgen

[oblique strategies]

A better approach is to use dummy clips, follow actions, & clip envelopes. But this is also an inelegant work around. Rather than explain how to do this, I can send you a session that has everything set up which will get you started. Let me know if you're interested.

There are other tricks when trying to mix in quad in Live, particularly how routing & effects send/returns work with stereo & mono signals, & mono & stereo I/O routing.

I've been mixing in Quad (or more speakers) for some time now, both with Live & hardware, & am happy to help where I can.

hi there,
may i ask for you for sending over an example setup ?
thanks a ton !
regards, jyrgen

I just PM'ed you.

[jyrgen]

Hi Alaric,

thanks for your example set. I tried it out, at the first glance it
was a bit tricky to comprehend, and i learned things about the chains
which i didn't know before
I can imagine many possibilities for a pratical use of this
configuration. But i decided to stick to the multi-send setup which
i came up with first, since my project demands for gradual transitions
between the outputs, rather then switching from one output to another.
Therefore i will need to send audio to more than one out at once.
With automation curves in the arrangement view i will have better
control and more freedom to distribute music to mutltiple speakers,
though it's not as elegant and convenient as your solution

jyrgen

[oblique strategies]

Hi Alaric,

thanks for your example set. I tried it out, at the first glance it
was a bit tricky to comprehend, and i learned things about the chains
which i didn't know before
I can imagine many possibilities for a pratical use of this
configuration. But i decided to stick to the multi-send setup which
i came up with first, since my project demands for gradual transitions
between the outputs, rather then switching from one output to another.
Therefore i will need to send audio to more than one out at once.
With automation curves in the arrangement view i will have better
control and more freedom to distribute music to mutltiple speakers,
though it's not as elegant and convenient as your solution

jyrgen

Hi jyrgen,

The reason we can't have gradual transitions when using External Effects Devices with Racks is because the fade zones in Racks don't work with External Audio Devices. Big fat drag!

There are other limitations when using Racks & External Audio Devices, (some of which you have already encountered), & some of the workarounds I've discovered are overly complex, & eat up a lot of CPU when used with my Quad template.

These are some of the reasons why I primarily use Aux Sends as busses to external speakers too.