What happens to sound waves?

[Mr. Obvious]

That's very good advice indeed.

I've read maybe three articles or chapters on the subject. This novice can either explain from memory what I've read, to DrDouche, or point to the article link as the reasonable Mr. Deft has done. I'm betting one of those is obviously much beter than the other at least for most nonDouches. Since DrDouche is very serious about the quality of reply he most desperately needs, it's even more confusing to the nonDouches who know how to hook a forum member up.

[DrXparaMental]

That's very good advice indeed.

I've read maybe three articles or chapters on the subject. This novice can either explain from memory what I've read, to DrDouche, or point to the article link as the reasonable Mr. Deft has done. I'm betting one of those is obviously much beter than the other at least for most nonDouches. Since DrDouche is very serious about the quality of reply he most desperately needs, it's even more confusing to the nonDouches who know how to hook a forum member up.

It's really too bad that someone doesn't have moderator level access, then we'd know for sure the MR. Oblivious is the real golden douche bag trophy holder known as leisuremuffin.

Once a dumb dick head, always a dumb dick head. And a coward at that.

...and the world continued to spin despite the dumb dick head factor, obviously.

[H20nly]

Actually they continue to go on and on forever, kinda like a laser being pointed into space. Thats why music is so important because it never dies it just goes on and on.

I don't know about you Doc but I kinda like this answer. At least its poetic or profound... or both.

I wonder if its true though??? Seems the nucleus **eh hem** sun would burn the little waves to crispy oblivion... but then thats where they were going anyway...



are you just gonna bogart that J?

[Mr. Obvious]

That's very good advice indeed.

I've read maybe three articles or chapters on the subject. This novice can either explain from memory what I've read, to DrDouche, or point to the article link as the reasonable Mr. Deft has done. I'm betting one of those is obviously much beter than the other at least for most nonDouches. Since DrDouche is very serious about the quality of reply he most desperately needs, it's even more confusing to the nonDouches who know how to hook a forum member up.

It's really too bad that someone doesn't have moderator level access, then we'd know for sure the MR. Oblivious is the real golden douche bag trophy holder known as DrX's conscience.

Once a dumb dick head, always a dumb dick head. And a coward at that.

...and the world continued to spin despite the dumb dick head factor, obviously.

Don't be so hard yourself DrDouche

[knotkranky]

Foam won't do much of anything under 400hz's ish

Foam is really only used for avoiding comb filtering from reflections.

You want to look up room-modes to understand how to deal with low-end problems.

Simple answer is that It maybe better to change your position in the room than build bass traps around a not so good position. I've worked in millions of rooms without bass traps like mine right now. I spent time finding the right spot in the room and don't need em.

[DrXparaMental]

Foam won't do much of anything under 400hz's ish

Foam is really only used for avoiding comb filtering from reflections.

You want to look up room-modes to understand how to deal with low-end problems.

Simple answer is that It maybe better to change your position in the room than build bass traps around a not so good position. I've worked in millions of rooms without bass traps like mine right now. I spent time finding the right spot in the room and don't need em.

Thank you for your response.

As a professional, (I am asking you) don't most studios incorporate mathematically position formulated baffles and reflective devices to "tune environments? I was in a seriously amazing control room not long ago in a local studio where I live and the guy there was saying that most of that stuff comes down to math. They had a pretty tall ceiling in this place and had baffles hanging vertically at specific heights as well as traps mounted on the walls in exacting locations. I would imagine, just exactly as you have stated, that this mostly comes down to the positioning of the stations in the room. The board had to be a good 8 feet long and the monitors/horns were huge. I have to state that this is the best sound I have ever heard in my life.

I am just a schmuck hobbyist that loves music and presses on. I don't have a "room" per se to work with as much as I have a designated area that just happens to have a door. I really just wanted to know what others have done to combat shit listening environments, which is assuredly what I have to work with. A furnace, water heater, and duct work from hell, do not good baffles make. I figure because the distance is a relatively small one, from the monitors to some of these variable surfaces, that once the initial reflection occurs the best I can hope for is to stop the secondary bounce.

I am stunned by those ADS speakers and how good these two ways sound. Flat is beautiful. It would seem that if the quality factor were the same, that passive monitoring would be superior to active with respect to mastering.

[knotkranky]

Foam won't do much of anything under 400hz's ish

Foam is really only used for avoiding comb filtering from reflections.

You want to look up room-modes to understand how to deal with low-end problems.

Simple answer is that It maybe better to change your position in the room than build bass traps around a not so good position. I've worked in millions of rooms without bass traps like mine right now. I spent time finding the right spot in the room and don't need em.

Thank you for your response.

As a professional, (I am asking you) don't most studios incorporate mathematically position formulated baffles and reflective devices to "tune environments? I was in a seriously amazing control room not long ago in a local studio where I live and the guy there was saying that most of that stuff comes down to math. They had a pretty tall ceiling in this place and had baffles hanging vertically at specific heights as well as traps mounted on the walls in exacting locations. I would imagine, just exactly as you have stated, that this mostly comes down to the positioning of the stations in the room. The board had to be a good 8 feet long and the monitors/horns were huge. I have to state that this is the best sound I have ever heard in my life.

I am just a schmuck hobbyist that loves music and presses on. I don't have a "room" per se to work with as much as I have a designated area that just happens to have a door. I really just wanted to know what others have done to combat shit listening environments, which is assuredly what I have to work with. A furnace, water heater, and duct work from hell, do not good baffles make. I figure because the distance is a relatively small one, from the monitors to some of these variable surfaces, that once the initial reflection occurs the best I can hope for is to stop the secondary bounce.

I am stunned by those ADS speakers and how good these two ways sound. Flat is beautiful. It would seem that if the quality factor were the same, that passive monitoring would be superior to active with respect to mastering.

Your friends got a little lucky too. Math can do a little, but it generally starts and stops with room dimensions and then ya gotta throw math out after that. It goes to feel/ear mode. I designed a room with George Augspurger a few years ago and i asked him some of the same Q's and he'd tell ya that he has no idea how the room will sound and he's a legend, lol. In the size room yer talkin about, it'll have to be a trial and error thing. But yeah, if you can design the actual room dimensions then it's fun. When ya can't, it can be challenging, but ya have to setup your studio completely first and knock down the probs one at a time.

I've worked in studios that had the best of every possible consideration, money and acoustic team, yada yada and it can be shit. I've worked in cheap DIY studios that sounded like god made it. I don't know what to say, it's just weird like that.

Look at "The Pearl" venue at the Palms in vegas. The greatest acoustic minds in the world were hired for that 80 million facility all around the quality of sound, and It sounds like crap. I've seen a dozen shows there. All crap from any spot. The mix position is the worst spot and it's in the best spot for it. Knowbody knows what happened.

But for us dudes who sit in one spot, i would suggest that you only give a toss about that one spot. I hate woofyness or no lows where i sit so the last three rooms i worked out of i put the speaks on a rolling rack and pushed it all over the room while my fave music picks were playing until i found a spot that was best. In my last two spots the speaks ended up very close to the wall. It wasn't right in my mind, but it simply sounded best there so there it stays. I put foam on the side walls for reflections and then a heavy rug hanging down from the ceiling about a foot off the wall behind me, and off I go. It is what it is and the rest is acclimation to the room. I did have to adjust the phase relation and cross-over point to my Tannoy sub for my last room though, but not the room before that. But that was last in my room tweekage. My current room is fine enough, I have to lean forward about a foot in my mix position to hear the bass right, but that's an ok compromise that doesn't bum me out.

[DrXparaMental]

Foam won't do much of anything under 400hz's ish

Foam is really only used for avoiding comb filtering from reflections.

You want to look up room-modes to understand how to deal with low-end problems.

Simple answer is that It maybe better to change your position in the room than build bass traps around a not so good position. I've worked in millions of rooms without bass traps like mine right now. I spent time finding the right spot in the room and don't need em.

Thank you for your response.

As a professional, (I am asking you) don't most studios incorporate mathematically position formulated baffles and reflective devices to "tune environments? I was in a seriously amazing control room not long ago in a local studio where I live and the guy there was saying that most of that stuff comes down to math. They had a pretty tall ceiling in this place and had baffles hanging vertically at specific heights as well as traps mounted on the walls in exacting locations. I would imagine, just exactly as you have stated, that this mostly comes down to the positioning of the stations in the room. The board had to be a good 8 feet long and the monitors/horns were huge. I have to state that this is the best sound I have ever heard in my life.

I am just a schmuck hobbyist that loves music and presses on. I don't have a "room" per se to work with as much as I have a designated area that just happens to have a door. I really just wanted to know what others have done to combat shit listening environments, which is assuredly what I have to work with. A furnace, water heater, and duct work from hell, do not good baffles make. I figure because the distance is a relatively small one, from the monitors to some of these variable surfaces, that once the initial reflection occurs the best I can hope for is to stop the secondary bounce.

I am stunned by those ADS speakers and how good these two ways sound. Flat is beautiful. It would seem that if the quality factor were the same, that passive monitoring would be superior to active with respect to mastering.

Your friends got a little lucky too. Math can do a little, but it generally starts and stops with room dimensions and then ya gotta throw math out after that. It goes to feel/ear mode. I designed a room with George Augspurger a few years ago and i asked him some of the same Q's and he'd tell ya that he has no idea how the room will sound and he's a legend, lol. In the size room yer talkin about, it'll have to be a trial and error thing. But yeah, if you can design the actual room dimensions then it's fun. When ya can't, it can be challenging, but ya have to setup your studio completely first and knock down the probs one at a time.

I've worked in studios that had the best of every possible consideration, money and acoustic team, yada yada and it can be shit. I've worked in cheap DIY studios that sounded like god made it. I don't know what to say, it's just weird like that.

Look at "The Pearl" venue at the Palms in vegas. The greatest acoustic minds in the world were hired for that 80 million facility all around the quality of sound, and It sounds like crap. I've seen a dozen shows there. All crap from any spot. The mix position is the worst spot and it's in the best spot for it. Knowbody knows what happened.

But for us dudes who sit in one spot, i would suggest that you only give a toss about that one spot. I hate woofyness or no lows where i sit so the last three rooms i worked out of i put the speaks on a rolling rack and pushed it all over the room while my fave music picks were playing until i found a spot that was best. In my last two spots the speaks ended up very close to the wall. It wasn't right in my mind, but it simply sounded best there so there it stays. I put foam on the side walls for reflections and then a heavy rug hanging down from the ceiling about a foot off the wall behind me, and off I go. It is what it is and the rest is acclimation to the room. I did have to adjust the phase relation and cross-over point to my Tannoy sub for my last room though, but not the room before that. But that was last in my room tweekage. My current room is fine enough, I have to lean forward about a foot in my mix position to hear the bass right, but that's an ok compromise that doesn't bum me out.

wow, BALLZ (you got 'em, that is) Admired. Can you imagine how much that must hurt? To have spent that kind of money with obviously a great deal of research having gone into the design. That is a high profile place that I knew about via their online schmear for some time now, but I guess from what you are stating here, those guys as well as the majority of the pro recording world, pretty much knows it's a given at this point. Damn, that would suck. Forgive me for zooming in on this, but it's rather shocking. You would think that "anything" of that nature could be fixed with that type of money. Just goes to snow ya.

You're right about the studio I was referring to. The natural acoustics in this place are amazing. It was an OLD 2 story dept. store in a downtown area that was built in the 30s I believe. Hard wood floors, loading dock/elevator, full basement. The guy that owns/runs it is a tinkering genius. I mean it. This guy is a very practical mad scientist. Last time I was there he was working on converting an old (late 1940s Ampex) mongo upright tape station into an echo plex of some sort. He was having all these parts and plates machined for the blue print in his head. Dood is stone heavy and very straight.

[twisted-space]

I really just wanted to know what others have done to combat shit listening environments, which is assuredly what I have to work with.

These



And this

[leisuremuffin]

That's very good advice indeed.

I've read maybe three articles or chapters on the subject. This novice can either explain from memory what I've read, to DrDouche, or point to the article link as the reasonable Mr. Deft has done. I'm betting one of those is obviously much beter than the other at least for most nonDouches. Since DrDouche is very serious about the quality of reply he most desperately needs, it's even more confusing to the nonDouches who know how to hook a forum member up.

It's really too bad that someone doesn't have moderator level access, then we'd know for sure the MR. Oblivious is the real golden douche bag trophy holder known as leisuremuffin.

Once a dumb dick head, always a dumb dick head. And a coward at that.

...and the world continued to spin despite the dumb dick head factor, obviously.

If anything, dr, you should realize from this thread that i'm not the only one who thinks you're a jackass. I don't hide behind second screen names.


anyway, enjoy your delusions.


.lm.

[DrXparaMental]

That's very good advice indeed.

I've read maybe three articles or chapters on the subject. This novice can either explain from memory what I've read, to DrDouche, or point to the article link as the reasonable Mr. Deft has done. I'm betting one of those is obviously much beter than the other at least for most nonDouches. Since DrDouche is very serious about the quality of reply he most desperately needs, it's even more confusing to the nonDouches who know how to hook a forum member up.

It's really too bad that someone doesn't have moderator level access, then we'd know for sure the MR. Oblivious is the real golden douche bag trophy holder known as leisuremuffin.

Once a dumb dick head, always a dumb dick head. And a coward at that.

...and the world continued to spin despite the dumb dick head factor, obviously.

If anything, dr, you should realize from this thread that i'm not the only one who thinks you're a jackass. I don't hide behind second screen names.


anyway, enjoy your delusions.


.lm.

My apologies to you if you are not, but the fact remains, you are the sole undefeated reigning champion of the golden douche bag trophy. Keep defending that cup! (both of 'em)

[DrXparaMental]

I really just wanted to know what others have done to combat shit listening environments, which is assuredly what I have to work with.

These



And this

damn you! It's a LONG walk back to the drawing board.

GREAT link, very interesting. I bet those Sennheiser's sound perfect. Nice.

[leisuremuffin]

My apologies to you if you are not, but the fact remains, you are the sole undefeated reigning champion of the golden douche bag trophy. Keep defending that cup! (both of 'em)

I'm not. And you do have a lot to apologize for. I've been more patient with the nonsense that you've been spouting than most people could be. I've never made a personal attack at you on the level that you have at me. And if you've been paying any attention to what's been going on around you, you would have the sense to take a look at yourself and your behavior instead of pointing a finger at me.



.lm.

[DrXparaMental]

My apologies to you if you are not, but the fact remains, you are the sole undefeated reigning champion of the golden douche bag trophy. Keep defending that cup! (both of 'em)

I'm not. And you do have a lot to apologize for. I've been more patient with the nonsense that you've been spouting than most people could be. I've never made a personal attack at you on the level that you have at me. And if you've been paying any attention to what's been going on around you, you would have the sense to take a look at yourself and your behavior instead of pointing a finger at me.



.lm.

Screw you leisure muffin. You made a post specifically dedicated to mock me behind my back. You have continually badgered and provoked me. Don't cry innocence just because you're having some self pathetic moment. I do pay GREAT attention to what's going on around me and I don't see you busy selflessly saving the world or as being justified in your antagonism of me any more than the next guy. You tell me to look in the mirror? Get a clue.

[leisuremuffin]

Screw you leisure muffin. You made a post specifically dedicated to mock me behind my back. You have continually badgered and provoked me. Don't cry innocence just because you're having some self pathetic moment. I do pay GREAT attention to what's going on around me and I don't see you busy selflessly saving the world or as being justified in your antagonism of me any more than the next guy. You tell me to look in the mirror? Get a clue.

i'm just pointing out that while i attempted to engage you in a conversation i never attacked you personally until after you had repeatedly done so to me. You're the one who needs a reality check, not me.


If one guy is calling you an asshole, it might be a problem with that guy. When almost everyone you interact with is calling you an asshole, you're probably acting like an asshole.





.lm.