Barack Obama is inventing Time Travel

[Tone Deft]

I don't have live 8 yet, almost everyday I go through hives for not getting it but I can't be bothered with the bugs right now if that one bug is fixed though I might push the button, I'm safe on 6

I didn't ask about Live 8, AFAIK this part of Live hasn't changed for years and years.

you can't get your mpcs to sync? mine tracks really well even through bpm changes.

[starving student]

I don't have live 8 yet, almost everyday I go through hives for not getting it but I can't be bothered with the bugs right now if that one bug is fixed though I might push the button, I'm safe on 6

I didn't ask about Live 8, AFAIK this part of Live hasn't changed for years and years.

you can't get your mpcs to sync? mine tracks really well even through bpm changes.

actualy it changed after 6, you're the only one I've ever heard say that, as a matter of fact even you didn't used to say that, mpcs and live aren't syncing correctly all over the damn place

[starving student]

uhh place being the internet

[Tone Deft]

I don't have live 8 yet, almost everyday I go through hives for not getting it but I can't be bothered with the bugs right now if that one bug is fixed though I might push the button, I'm safe on 6

I didn't ask about Live 8, AFAIK this part of Live hasn't changed for years and years.

you can't get your mpcs to sync? mine tracks really well even through bpm changes.

actualy it changed after 6, you're the only one I've ever heard say that, as a matter of fact even you didn't used to say that, mpcs and live aren't syncing correctly all over the damn place

how did it change? I'd need proof of that claim. mine syncs just fine, I was trying to break it, I couldn't, it was actually frustrating.

you can't get your mpcs to sync? how are you doing it?



anyway, I'm outta here, off work, onto a bike ride and home. back later to measure my APC power chords and see if Europe got screwed on that.

[starving student]

that's funny I bike home from work as well, who knew you and I had so much in common with other people that bike to work, bike safely.

[stringtapper]

anyway, I'm outta here, off work, onto a bike ride and home. back later to measure my APC power chords and see if Europe got screwed on that.

Metal on the APC, sounds interesting...

[deva]

We are supposed to be living in the "Greatest Country in All History" but we can't take care of our own. It's an absurdity!

We cannot take care of our own. We got more people in prison than anyone else. We cannot build stuff that the world wants on any large scale anymore. We have a profoundly corrupt political system entirely controlled by big money interests. It is easy to create a far better health care system but the wealthy institutions ripping the people off blind will not allow it and there is not yet enough political will to push them out of the picture.

[jsg4z]

but obama is the second coming...all shall be healed.

[H20nly]

We cannot take care of our own. We got more people in prison than anyone else. We cannot build stuff that the world wants on any large scale anymore. We have a profoundly corrupt political system entirely controlled by big money interests. It is easy to create a far better health care system but the wealthy institutions ripping the people off blind will not allow it and there is not yet enough political will to push them out of the picture.

Well put.

but obama is the second coming...all shall be healed.

fix decades (centuries?) of fucked in 7 months and maybe even you could be the second coming.
high hopes or hopes of failure?

edit: tense

[hurlingdervish]

"Use my taxez to kill people ive never met? HelL YeAz! thats AMERICAN

use my taxez to help sick and dying people who cant take care of themselvez? FUCK NO THATS SOCIALiSM"

/debate


really though, thats some fucked up party ethics. maybe we should just label Doctors as Defense Generals and Cancer as terrorists....maybe then people would approve

[Tone Deft]

that's funny I bike home from work as well, who knew you and I had so much in common with other people that bike to work, bike safely.

cool. we all do, at least Live and a love of music. we both have mpcs too. had a great ride, hit the ocean then up to SF's highest hill (Twin Peaks) and home. the fog finally broke, great sunset tonight. yeah, watch your ass out there, f-ing cars. I've learned what not to do by watching other bikers. best thing is to be fast and take the lane and expect every car to do the wrong thing. can't wait for my turn to go into the side of a car turning left in front of me.

anyway, I'm outta here, off work, onto a bike ride and home. back later to measure my APC power chords and see if Europe got screwed on that.

Metal on the APC, sounds interesting...

RAWK!! I never have loaded proper metal in Live. I spell that one wrong a lot. thank FSM for spell checkers, 'cept that's a homonym. I still blame the computer.

[jsg4z]

We cannot take care of our own. We got more people in prison than anyone else. We cannot build stuff that the world wants on any large scale anymore. We have a profoundly corrupt political system entirely controlled by big money interests. It is easy to create a far better health care system but the wealthy institutions ripping the people off blind will not allow it and there is not yet enough political will to push them out of the picture.

Well put.

but obama is the second coming...all shall be healed.

fix decades (centuries?) of fucked in 7 months and maybe even you could be the second coming.
high hopes or hopes of failure?

edit: tense

i know, but so far no one has invented the sarcasm emoticon
obama4evr!

[stringtapper]

It is easy to create a far better health care system but the wealthy institutions ripping the people off blind will not allow it

Who or what do you think the wealthy institutions are exactly? Is it Skynet? Godzilla? A fat white guy sitting at a boardroom table with a Magic "Marcellus Wallace" briefcase making everything happen?

I hear these types of anti-establishment arguments "for" the "people" and "against"... well I'm not sure who it's against really, it's always so elusive. If the so-called "wealthy institutions" are not "the people" then who or what exactly are they?

The point is, these "institutions" you speak of are comprised of people and there are goals and ideas that they work towards. Just the same way anyone who works in just about any job works with others towards some goal. Maybe the goal is to make a shitload of money, maybe it's to shelter homeless people. Who will stand up to say they are some "God" and have the moral authority to say which is better, or in a more extreme sense, which takes priority? You? Go ahead, but I pray to nothing.

So your problem isn't some big bad monster corporation-y thing, but other human beings and their goals. To dehumanize them is to water down your argument with irrelevant fluff. It's the same with the right-wing who rage against "the government." Well who or what the hell is "the government?" That's right, a bunch of people (hopefully) working toward the goal of doing the things the Constitution says the government is supposed to (yeah right).

No, I'm afraid the "problem" is the species itself. Start there. You may have a good point, but you sufficiently dull that point with the anti-establishment rhetoric.

And to leave deva alone for a bit and get even more serious, I believe that it is absolutely reasonable to argue that health care as a state provided service is a constitutionally enforceable mandate on the government. The Preamble to the U. S. Constitution states that part of the role of the government is to "provide for the common defense [and] promote the general welfare." I'd say that health care could reasonably be found to fall within the scope of that mandate.

However, don't get too excited hippies, because if we conclude that health care is mandatory from that statement, then we must reasonably conclude that military defense be mandatory as well. Both equally important and necessary elements needed to keep the people safe. Safe from bullets as well as bacteria.

Now of course neither of the ideological extremes want to concede that both mandates are legitimate. If we could at least come to that same conclusion then we could probably focus on the "hows" a lot more efficiently.

But that will never happen because, again, we're humans. We're our own worst enemy.

[deva]

It is easy to create a far better health care system but the wealthy institutions ripping the people off blind will not allow it

Who or what do you think the wealthy institutions are exactly? Is it Skynet? Godzilla? A fat white guy sitting at a boardroom table with a Magic "Marcellus Wallace" briefcase making everything happen?

I hear these types of anti-establishment arguments "for" the "people" and "against"... well I'm not sure who it's against really, it's always so elusive. If the so-called "wealthy institutions" are not "the people" then who or what exactly are they?

The point is, these "institutions" you speak of are comprised of people and there are goals and ideas that they work towards. Just the same way anyone who works in just about any job works with others towards some goal. Maybe the goal is to make a shitload of money, maybe it's to shelter homeless people. Who will stand up to say they are some "God" and have the moral authority to say which is better, or in a more extreme sense, which takes priority? You? Go ahead, but I pray to nothing.

Which takes priority? Whichever has the power to assert itself. Good or bad has nothing to do with it. At the moment, for example, Goldman Sachs is able to take hundreds of billions of dollars from the general public and they provide nothing tangible and necessary in return. Their plans and goals are enacted to the detriment of many millions of people. They are a parasite. Parasites are part of life and are not good or bad as such. Due to various social and environmental circumstances, the 'people' (meaning the general population of lower and middle-class citizens) currently have an impaired immune system. Eventually those people will decide to stop getting ripped off and do something about it. It is an historic cycle. It would not surprise me if a few hundred folk with pitchforks go into a Goldman Sachs board meeting and string them all up. Such has happened before and will happen again.

No 'God' or moral authority or discussion of 'better' is necessary (just healthy self interest). That stuff is nothing but a logic trap to keep people from acting. I'm going to take all your resources and who are you to say I shouldn't! 'Common sense' pays that no mind.

[stringtapper]

Which takes priority? Whichever has the power to assert itself. Good or bad has nothing to do with it. At the moment, for example, Goldman Sachs is able to take hundreds of billions of dollars from the general public and they provide nothing tangible and necessary in return. Their plans and goals are enacted to the detriment of many millions of people. They are a parasite. Parasites are part of life and are not good or bad as such. Due to various social and environmental circumstances, the 'people' (meaning the general population of lower and middle-class citizens) currently have an impaired immune system. Eventually those people will decide to stop getting ripped off and do something about it. It is an historic cycle. It would not surprise me if a few hundred folk with pitchforks go into a Goldman Sachs board meeting and string them all up. Such has happened before and will happen again.

No 'God' or moral authority or discussion of 'better' is necessary (just healthy self interest). That stuff is nothing but a logic trap to keep people from acting. I'm going to take all your resources and who are you to say I shouldn't! 'Common sense' pays that no mind.

Now you're speaking my language. I apologize for assuming that you were imposing your own moral dilemma on the issue. It just sounded so because of the very nature of your assertion that people are "being ripped off," which carries an inherently negative connotation to it and therefore seems to reflect a judgement value and a particular bias.

So would you agree with my assertion that some degree of force, whether it be through violence or through imposing laws that inhibit humans from doing things they want to do, is necessary in order to change things like the situation of "the people being ripped off" that you cited? I believe, as you stated, that the historical cycle bears this out.