Lives sound engine argument again ...

[ollyb303]

The Top 10 Music Applications
Q2, 2009, based on search requests

1. Pro Tools
2. Cubase
3. FL Studio
4. Cakewalk Sonar
5. Apple Logic
6. Adobe Audition
7. Ableton Live
8. Apple Garageband
9. Sound Forge
10. Sony Acid
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/ ... the-world/

WTF do search requests have to do with sound quality perez? Didn't you already post this irrelevant list in another thread? Why am I biting?

[leedsquietman]

All these lists are arbitrary. Based on google search is not the same as actual sales ....

This is an arbitrary list based on a few hundred respondants from Gearslutz as to which DAW they use.

1) Cubase/Nuendo - 27.5% (18.5% Cubase, 9% Nuendo)
2) Logic - 25.6%
3) Pro Tools - 16.5% (with around 3% being PTHD, the remainder are LE/MP)
4) Reaper - 14.9%
5) Ableton Live - 8.9%
6) Samplitude/Sequoia - 7.3% (5% Samplitude)
7) Sonar - 6.9%
Digital Performer - 3.4%
9) FL Studio - 2.4%
10) Reason/Record and Adobe Audition (tied)- 1.3%

It means as much as any other arbitrary list - not much in itself ....

[ollyb303]

^^^ exactly...

And it's totally unrelated to sound quality - even if these lists were accurate, there are many other factors which could potentially contribute to a person's reason to use one or another.

e.g.

DAW1 costs £10,000 but has fantastic sound quality
DAW2 costs £10 but has lesser (but still acceptable) sound quality

What's gonna sell more copies?

In any case, all us pros know that Live sounds the same as any other so there's no argument.

Please let me stop replying to this thread.

[KrisM]

I like Live's workflow. I get things done.

That's worth a lot to me

I love Session view. I slap down all sorts of ideas I have, or whatever really comes to mind during a, well... session, and then mix and match them all the hell over the place quickly. Then i go "holy hell... that's awesome!"

I <3 Live.

[McQ714]

pepsi or coke
chevy or ford
apple or microsoft
democrat or republican
red sox or yankees
tupac or notorious b.i.g
crips or bloods
parkay or margarine
glass half empty or glass half full
to be or not to be

iced tea or pellegrino
chevy but i drive a toyota
microsoft
not registered
Angels
tupac
are they still around?
da-da-da-da-- Imperial!
always full
what exactly am i being or not being?

[cperezzzzz]

go ANGELS !!!

[Nicknackerski]

All these lists are arbitrary. Based on google search is not the same as actual sales ....

This is an arbitrary list based on a few hundred respondants from Gearslutz as to which DAW they use.

1) Cubase/Nuendo - 27.5% (18.5% Cubase, 9% Nuendo)
2) Logic - 25.6%
3) Pro Tools - 16.5% (with around 3% being PTHD, the remainder are LE/MP)
4) Reaper - 14.9%
5) Ableton Live - 8.9%
6) Samplitude/Sequoia - 7.3% (5% Samplitude)
7) Sonar - 6.9%
Digital Performer - 3.4%
9) FL Studio - 2.4%
10) Reason/Record and Adobe Audition (tied)- 1.3%

It means as much as any other arbitrary list - not much in itself ....

No-body has mentioned that Logic is Macintosh only in these Tables, and still second place!
I personally think so many PC users choose Cubase because they don't have the option of Logic.

[8O]

All these lists are arbitrary. Based on google search is not the same as actual sales ....

This is an arbitrary list based on a few hundred respondants from Gearslutz as to which DAW they use.

1) Cubase/Nuendo - 27.5% (18.5% Cubase, 9% Nuendo)
2) Logic - 25.6%
3) Pro Tools - 16.5% (with around 3% being PTHD, the remainder are LE/MP)
4) Reaper - 14.9%
5) Ableton Live - 8.9%
6) Samplitude/Sequoia - 7.3% (5% Samplitude)
7) Sonar - 6.9%
Digital Performer - 3.4%
9) FL Studio - 2.4%
10) Reason/Record and Adobe Audition (tied)- 1.3%

It means as much as any other arbitrary list - not much in itself ....

DP is the coolest.

[audiovoid]

Live has a bad name because the standard mode of operating is that every audio loop always gets time stretched

Nope. Only in complex or complex pro mode. All other warp modes will not affect your loops as long as you don't change the tempo.

That's absolutely not true (and Ecspecially with the Grain and Texture modes). The only transparent mode (at proper tempo) is Repitch.
Even though the standard beats mode Has been vastly improved in version 8 it still affects the audio signa. And yes even at the loops original tempo.
Before i started using repitch for most of my warped tracks for playing out I would notice my own self produced tracks having that 'ableton warble' sound on the bass even when my project was at the songs correct tempo. like I said, Live 8 has gotten a lot better about this but there is still some slight sound degradation.

[8O]

Live has a bad name because the standard mode of operating is that every audio loop always gets time stretched

Nope. Only in complex or complex pro mode. All other warp modes will not affect your loops as long as you don't change the tempo.

That's absolutely not true (and Ecspecially with the Grain and Texture modes). The only transparent mode (at proper tempo) is Repitch.
Even though the standard beats mode Has been vastly improved in version 8 it still affects the audio signa. And yes even at the loops original tempo.
Before i started using repitch for most of my warped tracks for playing out I would notice my own self produced tracks having that 'ableton warble' sound on the bass even when my project was at the songs correct tempo. like I said, Live 8 has gotten a lot better about this but there is still some slight sound degradation.

From the manual:

If the tempo of a Clip is the same as the tempo of the Set, that clip will play back unstretched.
In this case, if the Warp mode of the Clip is set to Beats, Tones, Texture or Re-Pitch (but not
Complex or Complex Pro), playback will be neutral.

[Tone Deft]

Live has a bad name because the standard mode of operating is that every audio loop always gets time stretched

Nope. Only in complex or complex pro mode. All other warp modes will not affect your loops as long as you don't change the tempo.

That's absolutely not true (and Ecspecially with the Grain and Texture modes). The only transparent mode (at proper tempo) is Repitch.
Even though the standard beats mode Has been vastly improved in version 8 it still affects the audio signa. And yes even at the loops original tempo.
Before i started using repitch for most of my warped tracks for playing out I would notice my own self produced tracks having that 'ableton warble' sound on the bass even when my project was at the songs correct tempo. like I said, Live 8 has gotten a lot better about this but there is still some slight sound degradation.

that is simply not true.

the people at Ableton have stated many many many many times that at a clip's original bpm the only warp mode that affects the audio is Complex and Complex Pro.

whatever you're hearing you're diagnosing it wrong.

[v00d00ppl]

Live has a bad name because the standard mode of operating is that every audio loop always gets time stretched,
this is a really convenient way of working but stretching creates artifacts. So Live has a reputation for having a metallic sound.

If you place stuff into the arrangement and switch stretching off, and slice loops instead of stretching them to fit it will sound the same.

Don't defend yourself what are you defending? If people think they're better off using Cubase or Logic let them.
Different strokes for different folks.

amen!!!!

[ollyb303]

glass half empty or glass half full

Vessel is twice required size.

[crumhorn]

Perception of sound quality is all in the mind; a completely subjective decision based on a variety of mostly psychological factors. Actual measured fidelity doesn't really come in to it. Otherwise why do people still prefer records to CDs even though CDs are measurably better in every way that counts? Could it be that they actually like the distortion and the non linear frequency response of the record?

In truth most peoples ears are incapable of hearing frequencies much above 15 Khz, or detecting distortion much below 2% THD. (don't ask for references, this is all just stuff I picked up along the way). If you think one piece of audio equipment sounds 'better' than another it is differences in this range that are likely to be effecting your decision.

Moving one of your speakers by half an inch will make more difference to your sound than any slight difference between mixing bus designs - by a large factor.

glass half empty or glass half full

Both!

It's half way between full and empty.
Half of the glass is full and half of it is empty.

Or to think of it another way.

If you are in the process of filling the glass then it is half full. If you are emptying it then it is half empty.

[Pathos V2]

Live sounds best!

(as great as the the SSL Mixer application I use)

For the rest of the math I do not care anymore- but the workflow and inspiration coming from Live creates a better sounding mix. Bette than every "256 bit algorithm" could ever provide.